Author Topic: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?  (Read 44099 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« on: September 10, 2014, 11:50:PM »
A letter dated March 20, 2000 from the CCRC asserted that exhibits requested by the CCRC had been destroyed in 1996.  Are there any documents concerning which exhibits the CCRC wanted to see?

While we keep hearing all about the destroyed exhibits the Appeal Court said the main exhibits destoryed were blood samples but that they used blood of relatives of the various parties to mitigate the problem.

Also it seems that Jeremy himself decided not to have the CCRC look into the destruction.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=514.0
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline nugnug

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2014, 09:24:AM »
what i find intresting this case does not have to be ongoing for the evdence to be kept.

the met still hold evidence about jack the ripper witch can hardly be said to be an ongoing case.

Offline Jan

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2014, 02:01:PM »
A letter dated March 20, 2000 from the CCRC asserted that exhibits requested by the CCRC had been destroyed in 1996.  Are there any documents concerning which exhibits the CCRC wanted to see?

While we keep hearing all about the destroyed exhibits the Appeal Court said the main exhibits destoryed were blood samples but that they used blood of relatives of the various parties to mitigate the problem.

Also it seems that Jeremy himself decided not to have the CCRC look into the destruction.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=514.0

I believe I have seen a list of what was destroyed, on the forum somewhere ,I will have a hunt around.

Offline nugnug

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2014, 02:29:PM »
A letter dated March 20, 2000 from the CCRC asserted that exhibits requested by the CCRC had been destroyed in 1996.  Are there any documents concerning which exhibits the CCRC wanted to see?

While we keep hearing all about the destroyed exhibits the Appeal Court said the main exhibits destoryed were blood samples but that they used blood of relatives of the various parties to mitigate the problem.

Also it seems that Jeremy himself decided not to have the CCRC look into the destruction.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=514.0

had the officer in qustion been told to destroy that evedence what reason did he give for doing it.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2014, 02:41:PM »
what i find intresting this case does not have to be ongoing for the evdence to be kept.

the met still hold evidence about jack the ripper witch can hardly be said to be an ongoing case.

What evidence was kept by Scotland Yard?  They had very little physical evidence beyond the bodies let alone still have any.  They simply have a lot of files.

If you are talking about the recent claims about a shawl proving that it was a Polish barber you should be aware that the claims are as follows:

1) a cop took the shawl from the murder scene to give to his wife so it was never taken into evidence
2) it had blood on it and was never washed
3) DNA found on it matched the barber

If a cop did steal it from the scene to give to his wife then why wouldn't it be washed? How did the Barber's DNA get on it from the commission of the crime did he cut himself or was it non blood based DNA? 

There was no evidence put forth to establish it was actually near her body at the murder scene let alone that the killer would have touched it even if it had been. No evidence to even proved it belonged to the murder victim for that matter.  Nor have the DNA results been independently verified.  If he was her barber or he used her services that coudl acocunt for his DNA being on her clothing anyway.  Perhaps there was other DNA as well that was not mentioned.

Needless to say Jack the Ripper has not been definitely unmasked.   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline nugnug

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2014, 02:46:PM »
what reason did the police give for destroying the evedence in this case.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2014, 03:46:PM »
what reason did the police give for destroying the evedence in this case.

The ten years was up, they didn't know the appeal was still open and they needed to make room for new evidence.  We don't have more information about the circumstances and testing the claims because Jeremy's lawyers decided not to bother to have the CCRC/Appeal Court investigate.  The APpeal COurt summarized it as follows: 

"The police officer responsible contended that it was done without his appreciating that there was any on-going legal process that might require the further use of the exhibits."

Since some Jeremy zealots are always either exaggerating, in error or outright lying I want to see what evidence was destroyed beyond blood samples.  They got around the blood sample problem and yet it is still being alleged that other evidence was destroyed that could have cleared him. I wonder what this supposed evidence is.  It seems supporters don't have any clue what evidence was destroyed let alone that there is evidence that could have cleared him but it was destoryed and are just making up a claim that evidence that could have cleared him existed and was destroyed.

According to certain posters here some claims were made by unspecified Jeremy critics that Jeremy did not have an investigation into the circumstances of the destruction because he was happy evidence that could have been used against him was destroyed.  Zealots on the other side maintain evidence that could have cleared him was destroyed.   Neither is true.

If there had been evidence destroyed that could have cleared him then the defense would have wanted a full investigation. INSTEAD the defense was simply arguing the destruction taints the police in a general sense and thus calls the case into question on that basis.  The Appeal Court made clear that the circumstances did not need to be investigated because both sides agreed that the Court should simply accept lesser DNA matches to prove June and Nevill's blood to be present and this would mitigate the destruction of their blood samples. Had The Court investigated and found any wrongdoing by those currently in charge of the exhibits that woudl not have tainted the case as a whole.  That is why the defense said then don't bother.

The Court made clear that if it did find wrongdoing by someone who had control over the evidence in 1996, that such could not be used to say that means different police who conducted the investigation years earlier did anything wrong.  Let's be honest that is what many Jeremy zealots try to claim- that there was wrongdoing in 1996 and that means there likely was wrongdoing by those who handled the case otiginally and the evidence is therefore not reliable.  .  The Court said that won't fly so the defense said then don't bother and took what it could get which was the presumption that blood similar to the blood of relatives of the victims would suffice and be treated as a match to victim blood.

IF there had been evidence destroyed that could have been used to acquit him then they would have said yes find out the circumstances of the destruction because we hope you will find evidence that lets us argue that they intentionally destroyed evidence that they knew would set him free.  So the defense let the cat out of the bag that the evidence destroyed didn't do that.  They claimed such with respect to the blood samples but the Court mitigated that by accepting lesser DNA matches to prove June and Nevill's blood to be present.  There was nothing else destroyed that let the defense even try such an argument so they didn't care about the circumstances being investigated.

That indicates that at that time the defense was not worried about getting fodder to use for propaganda to use publicly to try to fool people but rather concerned simply with the legal value of evidence. It seems that after that point is when the propaganda machine took over. 

 

   

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jan

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2014, 05:15:PM »
There was a chart with the items listed - but I can not find the post -

a subsequent post names these items .

ND/5---------June Bambers' nightdress.
ND/3----------Sheila Caffells' nightdress.
DRH/34-----Top pillow and pillow case from R/H side of bed in main bedroom.
DRH/35.------Bottom pillow and floral pillowcase from R/H side of bed in main bedroom.
DRH/44------Bible found next to Sheila.
ND/1-------------Ralph Bambers' pyjama top.
ND/2------------Ralph Bambers' pyjama bottoms.
ND/8---------Daniel Caffells' pyjamas ( red )
ND/9------------Nicholas Caffells' pyjamas ( blue ).


But I am sure you were on this forum when the list was posted . it was not that long ago.

Soames and whiddon were the officers involved.

Offline Jan

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2014, 05:28:PM »
So the police could have been investigated regarding the destruction of evidence , and according to another thread , allegedly he declined to proceed with that ? don't quite get the point - it would not bring back the evidence so it could be re-examined would it?

And the police just said it was a mistake - so then you have to prove it was not  a mistake?

bashing your head against a brick wall comes to mind.

But why would SB have been involved in the destruction anyway?


Offline nugnug

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2014, 05:35:PM »
There was a chart with the items listed - but I can not find the post -

a subsequent post names these items .

ND/5---------June Bambers' nightdress.
ND/3----------Sheila Caffells' nightdress.
DRH/34-----Top pillow and pillow case from R/H side of bed in main bedroom.
DRH/35.------Bottom pillow and floral pillowcase from R/H side of bed in main bedroom.
DRH/44------Bible found next to Sheila.
ND/1-------------Ralph Bambers' pyjama top.
ND/2------------Ralph Bambers' pyjama bottoms.
ND/8---------Daniel Caffells' pyjamas ( red )
ND/9------------Nicholas Caffells' pyjamas ( blue ).


But I am sure you were on this forum when the list was posted . it was not that long ago.

Soames and whiddon were the officers involved.

were soames and whiddon told to do this i assume.

Offline Jan

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2014, 06:24:PM »
apparently soames authorised it as he was special branch.

Offline Jan

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2014, 06:37:PM »
while searching about the PJ top to confirm the evidence number found these .

why does it not say bullet holes on the evidence and also why does it say blood staining occurred PM and no blood stains on photos?

Offline Jan

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2014, 06:38:PM »
whoops

Offline lookout

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2014, 07:02:PM »
It doesn't sound as though he had that jacket on during the time he was shot ? Only after.

Offline nugnug

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Re: What exhibits were destroyed in 1996?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2014, 07:08:PM »
apparently soames authorised it as he was special branch.

special branch why the hell would special branch get involved in all this.