Author Topic: The Week of the Murders  (Read 28554 times)

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Offline JackiePreece

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #135 on: September 06, 2014, 07:28:PM »
Sidetracking what important issue?  Jeremy himself admits they were not getting on well.  He lied and said he was getting along great with his parents though.

The most relevant thing to discuss relative to his guilt or innocence though is the main evidence that convicted him.  That is the physical evidence (including lack of physical evidence to establish Sheila did anything) The credibility of his claims regarding receiving a phone call from Nevill.  His account about leaving the gun and bullets out which police say amounted to him trying to frame Sheila and finally Julie's statements.

The case against him was that he had motive, opportunity, was aware of the crimes though he would have no reason to know anything was wrong unless he killed them and that the person he fingered and framed had not even touched any bullets let alone fired a weapon or beat anyone.  He had the motive and time to wash up and change and dispose of the clothing he had worn while committing the murder while Sheila didn't.  Sheila thus could not have killed anyone else.  Nor could she have killed herself and then after her death have moved her own body, put the bible in a pool of blood that formed after her death or have removed the moderator and put it away.  So she can't have killed herself.

That's the case in a nutshell.  There are naturally details about Jeremy being caught lying and staging things like the 30 bullets in support of his framejob which come into play bu these ar a subset of the whole frame job argument.

 




Read Barbara Wilsons statement who saw JB and his parents every day and remind me what is says
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Offline nugnug

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #136 on: September 06, 2014, 07:39:PM »
so how many witnesses and witnesses have we got they did and of those witnesses who had a vested and who dident.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #137 on: September 06, 2014, 09:58:PM »



Read Barbara Wilsons statement who saw JB and his parents every day and remind me what is says

Barbara Wilson said Nevill was convinced his son was going to kill him and believes Jeremy did it so I don't know why you want to rely on her.  The only substantive thing she has to offer is pretty frekaing damning.

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Offline Jan

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #138 on: September 06, 2014, 10:13:PM »
HELEN GRIMSTER

Sheila SAID "SHE CONTEMPLATED SUICIDE ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION"

Nothing about it being years in the past there then . Could have been the week before or it could mean she was still contemplating. And in March 1985  she thought she was a white witch as well .


words taken from a meeting in March 1985
.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #139 on: September 06, 2014, 10:38:PM »
HELEN GRIMSTER

Sheila SAID "SHE CONTEMPLATED SUICIDE ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION"

Nothing about it being years in the past there then . Could have been the week before or it could mean she was still contemplating. And in March 1985  she thought she was a white witch as well .


words taken from a meeting in March 1985
.

Again with the broken record nonsense. 

YOu were already spoonfed multiple times on this issue.  If you knew how to read you would see she said that she met with Sheila on the day AFTER she got out of the hospital in 1985.  Her conversation with Sheila was in part about problems sheila had prior to being treated with medication to explain why she needed medication. Grimster doesn't say a thing about SHeila saying she recently contemplated suicide let alone contemplated it that day.  Grimster never saw her again after that day so cna't provide any evidence at all regarding her leading up to the murders.

You can strain all you like to try to pretend that Grimster claimed she said she was contemplating suicide recently.  But Grimster offered no evidence at all regarding timing other than she said to her that she contemplated it in the past and was discussing all sorts of problems she had before being treated.

Grimster thus adds nothing that we didn't already know from Ferguson about her saying she had thought about suicide. 

All this demosntrates is your bias.  For some irraitonal reaosn you are heavily biased in favor of Jeremy so twist and strain to try to find evidence to help him but your efforts just make you look silly and depserate.
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Offline nugnug

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #140 on: September 06, 2014, 11:43:PM »
HELEN GRIMSTER

Sheila SAID "SHE CONTEMPLATED SUICIDE ON MORE THAN ONE OCCASION"

Nothing about it being years in the past there then . Could have been the week before or it could mean she was still contemplating. And in March 1985  she thought she was a white witch as well .


words taken from a meeting in March 1985
.

a white witch well id never heard that before.

Offline Alias

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #141 on: September 07, 2014, 04:18:AM »
Dr Ferguson had no idea about the condition of Sheila at the time of the tragedy, and I don´t think he could be arsed about her in the first place. Read the three statements we have in the documents´ section, read them carefully. He had no idea about her medication, he knew nothing about her, and he did not care one bit!
He was a doctor who did not do a thing when a very ill mother said that her little boys were the devil´s children, were woman haters, were capable of killing and raping her (!). He did nothing to protect those children - other than pumping their mother full of, and I mean full of medication. 200mg Haloperidol every two weeks. Unheard of, really.
This doctor was a disgrace, citing what he said about Sheila is an even bigger disgrace. Go read it for yourselves. He had no idea about Sheila and he couldn´t care less, this man was washing his hands, he knew he had done wrong.
Sheila had not had any "successful treatment" after she said about her little boys they were the devil´s children and were capable of killing her - scipio keeps claiming that. Tell me, what successful treatment?

Offline maggie

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #142 on: September 07, 2014, 08:26:AM »
Dr Ferguson had no idea about the condition of Sheila at the time of the tragedy, and I don´t think he could be arsed about her in the first place. Read the three statements we have in the documents´ section, read them carefully. He had no idea about her medication, he knew nothing about her, and he did not care one bit!
He was a doctor who did not do a thing when a very ill mother said that her little boys were the devil´s children, were woman haters, were capable of killing and raping her (!). He did nothing to protect those children - other than pumping their mother full of, and I mean full of medication. 200mg Haloperidol every two weeks. Unheard of, really.
This doctor was a disgrace, citing what he said about Sheila is an even bigger disgrace. Go
read it for yourselves. He had no idea about Sheila and he couldn´t care less, this man was washing his hands, he knew he had done wrong.
Sheila had not had any "successful treatment" after she said about her little boys they were the devil´s children and were capable of killing her - scipio keeps claiming that. Tell me, what successful treatment?
I agree Alias, the medical profession closed ranks at the trial as they always do, covering their backs. To assume a doctor is invincible because he's a professional is naive to say the least. Judging by the information available Sheila, her boys and therefore also her extended family were woefully let down by the system. Imo

Offline Jan

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #143 on: September 07, 2014, 09:19:AM »
a white witch well id never heard that before.

I tried to post the statement from the archives - but it did not work .

But the conversation was there - also about her taking drugs. Not very appropriate for Sheila to be talking to a young girl like that really , which is why it seems she was still not right at that date.

It also said she felt "better" because she was getting on better with Colin which shows the importance of him in her life.

Whatever the truth of this case it does look like she may have been let down by the system.

Offline Jane

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #144 on: September 07, 2014, 09:28:AM »
Dr Ferguson had no idea about the condition of Sheila at the time of the tragedy, and I don´t think he could be arsed about her in the first place. Read the three statements we have in the documents´ section, read them carefully. He had no idea about her medication, he knew nothing about her, and he did not care one bit!
He was a doctor who did not do a thing when a very ill mother said that her little boys were the devil´s children, were woman haters, were capable of killing and raping her (!). He did nothing to protect those children - other than pumping their mother full of, and I mean full of medication. 200mg Haloperidol every two weeks. Unheard of, really.
This doctor was a disgrace, citing what he said about Sheila is an even bigger disgrace. Go read it for yourselves. He had no idea about Sheila and he couldn´t care less, this man was washing his hands, he knew he had done wrong.
Sheila had not had any "successful treatment" after she said about her little boys they were the devil´s children and were capable of killing her - scipio keeps claiming that. Tell me, what successful treatment?

I agree Alias, the medical profession closed ranks at the trial as they always do, covering their backs. To assume a doctor is invincible because he's a professional is naive to say the least. Judging by the information available Sheila, her boys and therefore also her extended family were woefully let down by the system. Imo


Alias/Maggie, Good Morning :) I need to come in on this. I concur ENTIRELY with what you both say. It was easy, when I thought Sheila was guilty, to keep the focus on her and how horrendously she'd been let down. The worst part of now believing that Jeremy is guilty, for me, is the shifting of focus -almost as if Sheila's plight is no longer of any importance- but NOTHING has changed, regarding Sheila, and just because I no longer believe her to be guilty, it doesn't mean I think she was LESS horrendously let down. Scipiio can say -and fudge/blur her condition/medication- what he likes, but I think I know more about mental illness and emotional/psychological disorder than he does. In my eyes, he's dismissing Sheila because his focus is Jeremy's guilt. HE'S doing the job of a prosecutor. Jeremy is guilty, ergo, there was NOTHING wrong with Sheila.

Offline Adam

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #145 on: September 07, 2014, 09:44:AM »

Alias/Maggie, Good Morning :) I need to come in on this. I concur ENTIRELY with what you both say. It was easy, when I thought Sheila was guilty, to keep the focus on her and how horrendously she'd been let down. The worst part of now believing that Jeremy is guilty, for me, is the shifting of focus -almost as if Sheila's plight is no longer of any importance- but NOTHING has changed, regarding Sheila, and just because I no longer believe her to be guilty, it doesn't mean I think she was LESS horrendously let down. Scipiio can say -and fudge/blur her condition/medication- what he likes, but I think I know more about mental illness and emotional/psychological disorder than he does. In my eyes, he's dismissing Sheila because his focus is Jeremy's guilt. HE'S doing the job of a prosecutor. Jeremy is guilty, ergo, there was NOTHING wrong with Sheila.

Good that you finally believe Jeremy is guilty. I have been saying this for several months.

It is a straight forward massacre and attempted frame by a greedy and resentful son. Badly executed by someone who was no criminal mastermind.

Maybe Jackie and Mike will see sense next week.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 09:51:AM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #146 on: September 07, 2014, 09:46:AM »
I tried to post the statement from the archives - but it did not work .

But the conversation was there - also about her taking drugs. Not very appropriate for Sheila to be talking to a young girl like that really , which is why it seems she was still not right at that date.

It also said she felt "better" because she was getting on better with Colin which shows the importance of him in her life.

Whatever the truth of this case it does look like she may have been let down by the system.



Jansus, the system, IMO, was only able to let Sheila down because there was collusion. I was speaking with friends of the Bambers yesterday and they had NO idea about Sheila's illness. This, I believe was one of the reasons for her private treatment -a doctor friend once told me that he often found that patients who were known personally to him, visited private doctors when they had conditions they didn't wish to share with him- treating her locally would have been SO much easier, there was a psychiatric facility within 10 miles of them and the Maudsley in London provided excellent psych care, however, tucked away in the wilds of Northamptonshire, there was no danger of family, friends, neighbours and community knowing.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #147 on: September 07, 2014, 09:52:AM »
Dr Ferguson had no idea about the condition of Sheila at the time of the tragedy, and I don´t think he could be arsed about her in the first place. Read the three statements we have in the documents´ section, read them carefully. He had no idea about her medication, he knew nothing about her, and he did not care one bit!
He was a doctor who did not do a thing when a very ill mother said that her little boys were the devil´s children, were woman haters, were capable of killing and raping her (!). He did nothing to protect those children - other than pumping their mother full of, and I mean full of medication. 200mg Haloperidol every two weeks. Unheard of, really.
This doctor was a disgrace, citing what he said about Sheila is an even bigger disgrace. Go read it for yourselves. He had no idea about Sheila and he couldn´t care less, this man was washing his hands, he knew he had done wrong.
Sheila had not had any "successful treatment" after she said about her little boys they were the devil´s children and were capable of killing her - scipio keeps claiming that. Tell me, what successful treatment?

Her treatment in the hospital in 1983 was considered successful.  Her delusions stopped and the only recorded cases of delusions after her treatment was when she stopped taking her medication.

You have no evidence to establish otherwise.  Provide us with a documented case of her having a delusion when she was on her medication.  The defense coudln't provide any examples at trial so naturally you won't be able to either.

Nor can you provide any evidence of her telling anyone that after her treatment she contemplated suicide.  Provide a statement of someone that says she told them she contemplated suicide  on a date that is after she was released from the hospital in 1983.  You can't.  All you can do is provide a handful of statements where she told peopel that she had conteplated suicide in the past.  One is from Ferguson who made clear she had such thoughts before she started her treatment but made no mention of any such thoughts after.  Another is Grimster who she told she contemplated suicide in the past.  She discussed her sickness before she was treated with Grimster os no evidence as to her indicating she contemplated it recently. 

The only testimony abou her kids was from Ferguson who insicated she had delusions about them before she was treated in 1983.  he said that after her treatment she didn't mention and delusions about her family anymore.

If you want to maintian that she was suicidal in the months before the murders then you need to provide evidence of that.  The burden is on you to find peopel who claim she told them she was contemplating suicide during that time.  But you have no such evidence so try to play games pretending she told Grimster she was suicidal but that is clearly untrue.

If you want to maintain she was having delusions about her kids and could harm them as a result around the time of the murders then you need to produce evidence of such.  Evidence from her doctor that she had such delusions before she was treated and never discussed having any after released in 1983 does not establish such.

You and other Jeremy supporters ignore the physical evidence and strain to suggest that Sheila would commit the murders hoping that somehow that can void the physical evidence but it would no be able to void the physical evidence even if you did have evidence she could possibly kill herself and her kids.  But you have no such evidence just strianing and misrepresenting to try to pretend,

It is just like the straining to tyr to pretend there were 3 moderators, strianing to pretend Nevill made a phone call to police, straining to pretend Jeremy had no way to get out of the windows and lock them...

At the end of the day Jeremy supporters strain to do anything to avoid facing relaity and to try to pretend their claims have some evidentiary support though they do not.

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jane

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #148 on: September 07, 2014, 10:01:AM »
Her treatment in the hospital in 1983 was considered successful.  Her delusions stopped and the only recorded cases of delusions after her treatment was when she stopped taking her medication.

You have no evidence to establish otherwise.  Provide us with a documented case of her having a delusion when she was on her medication.  The defense coudln't provide any examples at trial so naturally you won't be able to either.

Nor can you provide any evidence of her telling anyone that after her treatment she contemplated suicide.  Provide a statement of someone that says she told them she contemplated suicide  on a date that is after she was released from the hospital in 1983.  You can't.  All you can do is provide a handful of statements where she told peopel that she had conteplated suicide in the past.  One is from Ferguson who made clear she had such thoughts before she started her treatment but made no mention of any such thoughts after.  Another is Grimster who she told she contemplated suicide in the past.  She discussed her sickness before she was treated with Grimster os no evidence as to her indicating she contemplated it recently. 

The only testimony abou her kids was from Ferguson who insicated she had delusions about them before she was treated in 1983.  he said that after her treatment she didn't mention and delusions about her family anymore.

If you want to maintian that she was suicidal in the months before the murders then you need to provide evidence of that.  The burden is on you to find peopel who claim she told them she was contemplating suicide during that time.  But you have no such evidence so try to play games pretending she told Grimster she was suicidal but that is clearly untrue.

If you want to maintain she was having delusions about her kids and could harm them as a result around the time of the murders then you need to produce evidence of such.  Evidence from her doctor that she had such delusions before she was treated and never discussed having any after released in 1983 does not establish such.

You and other Jeremy supporters ignore the physical evidence and strain to suggest that Sheila would commit the murders hoping that somehow that can void the physical evidence but it would no be able to void the physical evidence even if you did have evidence she could possibly kill herself and her kids.  But you have no such evidence just strianing and misrepresenting to try to pretend,

It is just like the straining to tyr to pretend there were 3 moderators, strianing to pretend Nevill made a phone call to police, straining to pretend Jeremy had no way to get out of the windows and lock them...

At the end of the day Jeremy supporters strain to do anything to avoid facing relaity and to try to pretend their claims have some evidentiary support though they do not.

 



Presumably, if there was irrefutable proof that Sheila had committed suicide, you'd be using what she said to Helen Grimster as evidence that she was contemplating it.

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: The Week of the Murders
« Reply #149 on: September 07, 2014, 10:21:AM »
Barbara Wilson said Nevill was convinced his son was going to kill him and believes Jeremy did it so I don't know why you want to rely on her.  The only substantive thing she has to offer is pretty frekaing damning.

Right now post where you got that from
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