Author Topic: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?  (Read 29917 times)

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #300 on: August 30, 2014, 01:15:PM »

So around 2 weeks ago you posted you were not sure Jeremy was guilty and now you are 100% he is guilty

Please fill us in what event has happened in the last couple of weeks to make you 100%

Your behaviour is ridiculous!!  Jeremy must have seen right through you

As I have said you have NEVER achieved anything on this forum proving innocence or guilt

I am the only one to stand up and say it

You sit up every night tapping away on your computer for what exactly

Neither have you! But at least I try and think about the issues logically, you just bitch about Julie Muford and claim to have inside information on various issues.  ;D ;D ;D

I can't see if you're standing up Jackie so you might as well have a seat  ;D ;D

Why are you tapping on yours? You don't contribute anything at all - you don't even answer questions - probably because you can't but we'll try again. Now this is the question Jackie - with your extensive knowledge, you should be able to provide a pretty good answer that we can all agree with.

Say Neville did call the police ..... he called Jeremy at 03:10, if he called Bonnet at 03:26 what was he doing for the 16 minutes between calling Jeremy and calling Bonnet? Why is the information exactly the same as on Jeremy's log (different words used - same info), why was the line engaged when Jeremy tried to call back if Neville didn't call the police until 16 mins later and still engaged when West tried calling? Then of course there is the notion that the call was never mentioned to anyone - a call that proved that EP's initial take on the case was correct - Sheila was guilty and Jeremy was innocent. Why would this call be kept secret?

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Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #301 on: August 30, 2014, 01:18:PM »
same as the rest of us - because we are still trying to find that final bit of proof either way.

I have done things off the forum to try and help - but to be honest that takes a lot of guts because no one in their right mind could say about a man that is convicted and has had several unsuccessful appeals that you could be 100% sure he is innocent. So there is always a niggling doubt that you could be defending a child murderer.

However I do think that the EP SHOULD release all the info under PII . They should release what is in those 200 boxes .

they could be inspected by independent law students , one box each and they could sign something to say they would only release anything relevant to the defence team.


I find that their reasons for not doing so very suspicious.

IMO :)

I agree, but Jackie doesn't know what anyone had done off forum - she just assumes so I will let her fester away thinking what she likes.  ;D
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Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #302 on: August 30, 2014, 01:55:PM »
Caroline

Why have you not replied to this

So around 2 weeks ago you posted you were not sure Jeremy was guilty and now you are 100% he is guilty
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #303 on: August 30, 2014, 02:06:PM »
Caroline

Why have you not replied to this

So around 2 weeks ago you posted you were not sure Jeremy was guilty and now you are 100% he is guilty

Jackie, why have you not replied to this?

Say Neville did call the police ..... he called Jeremy at 03:10, if he called Bonnet at 03:26 what was he doing for the 16 minutes between calling Jeremy and calling Bonnet? Why is the information exactly the same as on Jeremy's log (different words used - same info), why was the line engaged when Jeremy tried to call back if Neville didn't call the police until 16 mins later and still engaged when West tried calling? Then of course there is the notion that the call was never mentioned to anyone - a call that proved that EP's initial take on the case was correct - Sheila was guilty and Jeremy was innocent. Why would this call be kept secret?

The topic is in reference to the timing of the phone calls, if you have nothing to contribute other than to harp on about my personal views, I suggest you find something more constructive to do. Take your personal grievances elsewhere, ideally, to the person you have them with. You don't know me, you just think you do and on that score (like many others) you are WRONG!
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Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #304 on: August 30, 2014, 02:24:PM »
I have made it very clear on numerous times on this forum that unless the correct times of phone call is proved they mean nothing
Zilch!!

What I am concerned about is it looks like you have a personal vendetta against Jeremy

I am waiting for an answer on why you now believe Jeremy is now 100% guilty and a couple of weeks ago you said you were not sure

If his guilt depends on if he replies to you or not I feel very sad for you

I don't know if Jeremy is 100% innocent or not but I will stand by him 100% that there should be an appeal or retrial

He would walk, that I am sure
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline susan

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #305 on: August 30, 2014, 02:27:PM »
Caroline I was under the impression you have thought for quite awhile now that Jeremy Bamber was guilty maybe last year but only made your feelings about your change of stance a couple of months ago certainly longer than 2 weeks I have been at least 6 weeks with a change of stance and I detailed my feelings as to why I thought this on the forum this week to jansus you have posted reasons why you think he is GUILTY and you have been given so much respect from others for your honesty

Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #306 on: August 30, 2014, 03:07:PM »
Caroline I was under the impression you have thought for quite awhile now that Jeremy Bamber was guilty maybe last year but only made your feelings about your change of stance a couple of months ago certainly longer than 2 weeks I have been at least 6 weeks with a change of stance and I detailed my feelings as to why I thought this on the forum this week to jansus you have posted reasons why you think he is GUILTY and you have been given so much respect from others for your honesty

You are correct Susan!! After he dodged the wallet question it put doubt in my head. I discussed it with other members off the forum and mulled it over for about 6 months before discussing how he knew how much was in the wallet on the open forum. To be honest, the reaction of other members made me question whether people were interested in the truth or were just arguing for the sake of it. Once doubt enters your mind, it grows and all the things which I thought were suspicious (like the logs) weren't really suspicious at all - it was the slant that was put on them that made them seem that way. The time of the call to Bonnet isn't in dispute so the time of Wests call has to be before that (unless you believe that Neville called to Bonnet but then you have to account for 16 minutes). If you strip back all the opinion and speculation, you're left with the time and it doesn't add up.

To suggest I have a vendetta against Jeremy Bamber is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I'd argue the same if any other convicted killer (that I thought was guilty) was protesting his innocence. If guilty, he deserves to be where he is or perhaps Jackie thinks differently? I do think the silencer was faked and agree that anything held under PII should be released and have stated so many times - I also think that IF it can be proven that the silencer was faked, he should have a re-trial - which I have also said before (many times). However, even if the silencer was faked, it doesn't mean Jeremy is innocent. He put himself in the mix with the phone calls and unless he can prove Neville either called him or called police he won't get out.

This is an important aspect so rather than doing what she is is accusing me of (having a personal vendetta) perhaps she can put some effort into working out the evidence around the phone calls. Just a thought.
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Offline susan

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #307 on: August 30, 2014, 03:27:PM »
Caroline excellent post and I concur with all your points I have no vendetta against Jeremy Bamber he is a total stranger but I am interested that justice is served and if he was "fitted" up I believe this is because the police knew he was guilty but did not have evidence.  He should have a retrial and the truth be told.

Offline Reader

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #308 on: August 30, 2014, 03:35:PM »
No sorry, there was a video produced by the CT that stated they weren't allowed to show the logs for legal reasons.
If you check, I think you'll find that those reasons no longer apply. However, I agree that the errors were minor and the time of 3:36 was the same in all versions. The differences served only to suggest that Pc West used a multipart pad.

Say Neville did call the police ..... he called Jeremy at 03:10, if he called Bonnet at 03:26 what was he doing for the 16 minutes between calling Jeremy and calling Bonnet?

Thank you for considering the possibility again. In doing so, you cannot assume that Nevill called Jeremy at 3:10am. That time was Jeremy's estimate, but we don't know what it was based on and it is uncorroborated. We know that some of Julie's flatmates said they didn't look at any clock when they were woken by Jeremy's call, so we can't assume that Jeremy noted the time straight away, especially as he has never said he did.

Why is the information exactly the same as on Jeremy's log (different words used - same info)?
Presumably what was initially written in the logs was kept short to save time. For example, Pc West later revealed some details that he hadn't logged. It's not surprising that Nevill said much the same thing to the police as to Jeremy.

why was the line engaged when Jeremy tried to call back if Neville didn't call the police until 16 mins later and still engaged when West tried calling?
The telephone handset was off-hook according to the operator, and so all attempts to dial the WHF number would have resulted in an engaged tone until such time as the handset was replaced. From Jeremy's description, Nevill cut the call off, but didn't leave the handset on-hook. That could have been because Nevill tried to make another call, but we don't know for certain.

Then of course there is the notion that the call was never mentioned to anyone - a call that proved that EP's initial take on the case was correct - Sheila was guilty and Jeremy was innocent. Why would this call be kept secret?
We don't know that it was kept secret initially. All we know is that Jeremy wasn't told about it. The police don't necessarily give out information freely when a possible crime report has occurred. One could equally ask why EP required a court order to release other logging by Malcolm Bonnett that they had previously denied the existence of. Even in what they eventually released, there was a mysterious absence of certain things that we know must have occurred.

If you prefer the view that just one call to the police was made, and that was by Jeremy, how do you explain that both Pc West and Malcolm Bonnett claim they contacted Witham so that a car could be sent?

Offline JackiePreece

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #309 on: August 30, 2014, 04:06:PM »
You are correct Susan!! After he dodged the wallet question it put doubt in my head. I discussed it with other members off the forum and mulled it over for about 6 months before discussing how he knew how much was in the wallet on the open forum. To be honest, the reaction of other members made me question whether people were interested in the truth or were just arguing for the sake of it. Once doubt enters your mind, it grows and all the things which I thought were suspicious (like the logs) weren't really suspicious at all - it was the slant that was put on them that made them seem that way. The time of the call to Bonnet isn't in dispute so the time of Wests call has to be before that (unless you believe that Neville called to Bonnet but then you have to account for 16 minutes). If you strip back all the opinion and speculation, you're left with the time and it doesn't add up.

To suggest I have a vendetta against Jeremy Bamber is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I'd argue the same if any other convicted killer (that I thought was guilty) was protesting his innocence. If guilty, he deserves to be where he is or perhaps Jackie thinks differently? I do think the silencer was faked and agree that anything held under PII should be released and have stated so many times - I also think that IF it can be proven that the silencer was faked, he should have a re-trial - which I have also said before (many times). However, even if the silencer was faked, it doesn't mean Jeremy is innocent. He put himself in the mix with the phone calls and unless he can prove Neville either called him or called police he won't get out.

This is an important aspect so rather than doing what she is is accusing me of (having a personal vendetta) perhaps she can put some effort into working out the evidence around the phone calls. Just a thought.



I will find your post and repost it for everyone on the forum to see

Unless you have removed it

So how long are you saying you have known Jeremy is 100% guilty
"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle" Winston Churchill

Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #310 on: August 30, 2014, 04:12:PM »


I will find your post and repost it for everyone on the forum to see

Unless you have removed it

So how long are you saying you have known Jeremy is 100% guilty

Post what you like - I really don't care, I don't know what your problem is but you've got one. Answer questions about the case and stop stalking me - you're weirding me out!  :o :o
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guest154

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #311 on: August 30, 2014, 04:13:PM »
You are correct Susan!! After he dodged the wallet question it put doubt in my head. I discussed it with other members off the forum and mulled it over for about 6 months before discussing how he knew how much was in the wallet on the open forum. To be honest, the reaction of other members made me question whether people were interested in the truth or were just arguing for the sake of it. Once doubt enters your mind, it grows and all the things which I thought were suspicious (like the logs) weren't really suspicious at all - it was the slant that was put on them that made them seem that way. The time of the call to Bonnet isn't in dispute so the time of Wests call has to be before that (unless you believe that Neville called to Bonnet but then you have to account for 16 minutes). If you strip back all the opinion and speculation, you're left with the time and it doesn't add up.

To suggest I have a vendetta against Jeremy Bamber is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I'd argue the same if any other convicted killer (that I thought was guilty) was protesting his innocence. If guilty, he deserves to be where he is or perhaps Jackie thinks differently? I do think the silencer was faked and agree that anything held under PII should be released and have stated so many times - I also think that IF it can be proven that the silencer was faked, he should have a re-trial - which I have also said before (many times). However, even if the silencer was faked, it doesn't mean Jeremy is innocent. He put himself in the mix with the phone calls and unless he can prove Neville either called him or called police he won't get out.

This is an important aspect so rather than doing what she is is accusing me of (having a personal vendetta) perhaps she can put some effort into working out the evidence around the phone calls. Just a thought.

It's clear that the personal vendetta isn't you Vs Jeremy but Jackie vs you/Susan. This is something she is well known for against people who don't believe Bamber is innocent.

If you're led by the evidence rather than anything else I don't see how it can be personal against Bamber. If she wishes to ignore evidence because she wants to and because she likes Bamber than that is her choice but it's not right or fair to accuse others who genuinely know the evidence,can see it right in front of them, have debated it, have shown a clear and comprehensive understanding of the case and still come to the conclusion that Bamber is guilty.

Offline susan

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #312 on: August 30, 2014, 04:33:PM »
Caroline you suspected he was guilty last year and made it known on the forum during the past couple of months  it isn't something you have just thought of it has been a combination of many little things most of which you have talked about.  Because of the respect you have earned on this forum I fear some feel threatened by you which is sad as we are all entitled to our own opinions.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #313 on: August 30, 2014, 04:33:PM »
I have made it very clear on numerous times on this forum that unless the correct times of phone call is proved they mean nothing
Zilch!!

What I am concerned about is it looks like you have a personal vendetta against Jeremy

I am waiting for an answer on why you now believe Jeremy is now 100% guilty and a couple of weeks ago you said you were not sure

If his guilt depends on if he replies to you or not I feel very sad for you

I don't know if Jeremy is 100% innocent or not
but I will stand by him 100% that there should be an appeal or retrial

He would walk, that I am sure

Not sure where you learned maths from but he can't be any less than 100% innocent, to be innocent. Why are you obsessed about him writing to me? I asked him a few questions and gave him a few ideas - we didn't discuss marriage  ;D ;D ;D ;D. Although we can clear one thing up - if you don't believe that my name is really Caroline - perhaps you'll believe Jeremy? :P

« Last Edit: August 30, 2014, 04:34:PM by Caroline »
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Offline Reader

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Re: Surely The Timings Are Incorrect?
« Reply #314 on: August 30, 2014, 04:34:PM »
My apologies for not drawing attention to it before, but car CA07 reached WHF at 3:48am according to Malcolm Bonnett, but at 3:50am according to Pc West. A later summary created by the police has this time as 3:50am. As we don't know which time is correct, we have to allow the possibility that 3:50am is correct. On that basis, Jeremy had about 8 minutes to make his way to WHF, which fits very nicely with Pc West's evidence, and car CA07 had an extra two minutes to attend the scene, making that journey more plausible as well.