Author Topic: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?  (Read 9854 times)

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Offline Adam

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2014, 10:13:PM »
Not sure the crime scene put Sheila in the frame:

i) The appellant's expressed dislike of his family;

ii) His speaking of his plans to kill his family and thereafter his confessions to his girlfriend, Julie Mugford;

iii) The finding of his mother's bicycle at Goldhanger;

iv) The appellant's admitted ability to effect covert entry into and exit from the farmhouse and the finding of the hacksaw blade outside the bathroom window. His claim to have entered the house in that way after the first arrest was an attempt to explain these findings;

v) Because on the facts of the case it could only have been the appellant or Sheila Caffell who carried out the killings, the factors below proved they were not the responsibility of the appellant's sister:

a) Although seriously mentally ill, there had been no indication of any deterioration in her mental health in the days before the killings. Neither had she expressed any recent suicidal thoughts and the expert evidence was that she would not have harmed her children or her father;

b) Save for the appellant nobody had seen her use a gun and she had no interest in them. Sheila Caffell also had very poor co-ordination and would not have been capable of loading and operating the rifle nor would she have had the required knowledge to do so;

c) She would not have been able physically to have overcome her father (who was fit, strong and 6' 4" tall) during the struggle which undoubtedly took place before his death in the kitchen;

d) Her hands and feet were clean. They were not blood stained and neither was there any sugar upon them;

e) Hand swabs from her body did not reveal the levels of lead to be expected in somebody who must have re-loaded the magazine of the gun on at least two occasions; and

f) Her clothing was relatively clean and she was not injured in the way that might be expected of somebody involved in a struggle. Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged.

vi) The sound moderator had on any view been attached to the rifle during the fight with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen. But if Sheila Caffell had committed suicide it must have been removed before she shot herself. The following aspects of the evidence established it was still in place on the gun when the appellant's sister was murdered:

a) The blood grouping analysis proved (on the particular facts of the case) that Sheila Caffell's blood was inside the moderator; and

b) Had the appellant's sister murdered the other members of her family with the moderator attached to the gun and then discovered she could not reach the trigger to kill herself, the moderator would have been found next to her body. There would have been no reason for her to have removed it and returned it to the gun cupboard before going back upstairs to commit suicide in her parents' room.

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;

d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and

e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.

viii) He stood to inherit considerable sums of money.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2014, 10:15:PM »
Not sure the crime scene put Sheila in the frame:

i) The appellant's expressed dislike of his family;

ii) His speaking of his plans to kill his family and thereafter his confessions to his girlfriend, Julie Mugford;

iii) The finding of his mother's bicycle at Goldhanger;

iv) The appellant's admitted ability to effect covert entry into and exit from the farmhouse and the finding of the hacksaw blade outside the bathroom window. His claim to have entered the house in that way after the first arrest was an attempt to explain these findings;

v) Because on the facts of the case it could only have been the appellant or Sheila Caffell who carried out the killings, the factors below proved they were not the responsibility of the appellant's sister:

a) Although seriously mentally ill, there had been no indication of any deterioration in her mental health in the days before the killings. Neither had she expressed any recent suicidal thoughts and the expert evidence was that she would not have harmed her children or her father;

b) Save for the appellant nobody had seen her use a gun and she had no interest in them. Sheila Caffell also had very poor co-ordination and would not have been capable of loading and operating the rifle nor would she have had the required knowledge to do so;

c) She would not have been able physically to have overcome her father (who was fit, strong and 6' 4" tall) during the struggle which undoubtedly took place before his death in the kitchen;

d) Her hands and feet were clean. They were not blood stained and neither was there any sugar upon them;

e) Hand swabs from her body did not reveal the levels of lead to be expected in somebody who must have re-loaded the magazine of the gun on at least two occasions; and

f) Her clothing was relatively clean and she was not injured in the way that might be expected of somebody involved in a struggle. Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged.

vi) The sound moderator had on any view been attached to the rifle during the fight with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen. But if Sheila Caffell had committed suicide it must have been removed before she shot herself. The following aspects of the evidence established it was still in place on the gun when the appellant's sister was murdered:

a) The blood grouping analysis proved (on the particular facts of the case) that Sheila Caffell's blood was inside the moderator; and

b) Had the appellant's sister murdered the other members of her family with the moderator attached to the gun and then discovered she could not reach the trigger to kill herself, the moderator would have been found next to her body. There would have been no reason for her to have removed it and returned it to the gun cupboard before going back upstairs to commit suicide in her parents' room.

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;

d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and

e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.

viii) He stood to inherit considerable sums of money.
Well it did at first Adam and if Jeremy had kept quiet about everything there would have been no case against him. She would have remained in the frame simply because there would be no one else to pin it on.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2014, 10:22:PM »
Not sure the crime scene put Sheila in the frame:

i) The appellant's expressed dislike of his family;

ii) His speaking of his plans to kill his family and thereafter his confessions to his girlfriend, Julie Mugford;

iii) The finding of his mother's bicycle at Goldhanger;

iv) The appellant's admitted ability to effect covert entry into and exit from the farmhouse and the finding of the hacksaw blade outside the bathroom window. His claim to have entered the house in that way after the first arrest was an attempt to explain these findings;

v) Because on the facts of the case it could only have been the appellant or Sheila Caffell who carried out the killings, the factors below proved they were not the responsibility of the appellant's sister:

a) Although seriously mentally ill, there had been no indication of any deterioration in her mental health in the days before the killings. Neither had she expressed any recent suicidal thoughts and the expert evidence was that she would not have harmed her children or her father;

b) Save for the appellant nobody had seen her use a gun and she had no interest in them. Sheila Caffell also had very poor co-ordination and would not have been capable of loading and operating the rifle nor would she have had the required knowledge to do so;

c) She would not have been able physically to have overcome her father (who was fit, strong and 6' 4" tall) during the struggle which undoubtedly took place before his death in the kitchen;

d) Her hands and feet were clean. They were not blood stained and neither was there any sugar upon them;

e) Hand swabs from her body did not reveal the levels of lead to be expected in somebody who must have re-loaded the magazine of the gun on at least two occasions; and

f) Her clothing was relatively clean and she was not injured in the way that might be expected of somebody involved in a struggle. Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged.

vi) The sound moderator had on any view been attached to the rifle during the fight with Nevill Bamber in the kitchen. But if Sheila Caffell had committed suicide it must have been removed before she shot herself. The following aspects of the evidence established it was still in place on the gun when the appellant's sister was murdered:

a) The blood grouping analysis proved (on the particular facts of the case) that Sheila Caffell's blood was inside the moderator; and

b) Had the appellant's sister murdered the other members of her family with the moderator attached to the gun and then discovered she could not reach the trigger to kill herself, the moderator would have been found next to her body. There would have been no reason for her to have removed it and returned it to the gun cupboard before going back upstairs to commit suicide in her parents' room.

vii) The appellant's account of the telephone call from his father could be proved to be false for the following reasons:

a) His father was too badly injured to have spoken to anybody;

b) The telephone in the kitchen was not obviously blood stained;

c) As a matter of common sense, Nevill Bamber would have called the police before the appellant;

d) Had the appellant really received such a call, he would have immediately made a 999 call, alerted the farm workers who lived close to the farmhouse and then driven at speed to his parents home; and

e) Instead he had spoken to Julie Mugford before calling the police. When he subsequently contacted the Police, it was not by way of the emergency system.

viii) He stood to inherit considerable sums of money.

This is the third time you have posted this same post! Something you have been warned about over and over. It was decided that links could be posted so long as you explain why you're posting said link. I'll ask again that you don't keep posting the same repetitive posts!
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Offline Adam

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2014, 10:25:PM »
It related to what Grahame said - 'Nothing at the crime scene showed it was Sheila'.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2014, 10:27:PM »
Well it did at first Adam and if Jeremy had kept quiet about everything there would have been no case against him. She would have remained in the frame simply because there would be no one else to pin it on.

Yes, Jeremy should have stayed quiet. But there were lots of reasons he told Julie. Thread created.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2014, 10:28:PM »
It related to what Grahame said - 'Nothing at the crime scene showed it was Sheila'.

You don't need to post the whole post to make a point, a link would have done with a reference to which part you were referring to.
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Offline Jan

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2014, 12:40:PM »
Yes, Jeremy should have stayed quiet. But IMO there were lots of reasons he told Julie. Thread created.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #67 on: June 24, 2014, 12:59:PM »
Yes, Jeremy should have stayed quiet. But there were lots of reasons he told Julie. Thread created.
Thread answered.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2014, 01:01:PM »
If the relationship was already on the rocks as stated by some, then there was every reason for Jeremy not to have told JM.

Offline lookout

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #69 on: June 24, 2014, 01:15:PM »
 I think Jeremy was testing JM,as maybe in their past a conversation may have got back to him via JM so as to deem her an untrustworthy person. One way of finding out.
I wonder why JM never liked Brett Collins ? Was he too outspoken for her ? He was Jeremys' buddy so would have been more loyal than she was,,as was proved.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #70 on: June 24, 2014, 01:31:PM »
I have been reading Jeremy's statements, two of them and part of what I presume to be a court transcript. I can't see where he has changed his statement regarding times? Perhaps someone could inform me as to where the statements are where he has done thins?
I know that JM changed the times of when she received a phone call from him early in the morning and it is quite evident that she did this in order for her statement to be in harmony with things that other prosecution witnesses.
But for the life of me I cannot find any more of Jeremy's witness statements that back up the claim of the guilters that he changed the times several times?

Offline Alias

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #71 on: June 24, 2014, 01:42:PM »
I have been reading Jeremy's statements, two of them and part of what I presume to be a court transcript. I can't see where he has changed his statement regarding times? Perhaps someone could inform me as to where the statements are where he has done thins?
I know that JM changed the times of when she received a phone call from him early in the morning and it is quite evident that she did this in order for her statement to be in harmony with things that other prosecution witnesses.
But for the life of me I cannot find any more of Jeremy's witness statements that back up the claim of the guilters that he changed the times several times?

The EP made their time-puzzle add up with the help of not one, but two clocks which showed the wrong time.

Offline lookout

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #72 on: June 24, 2014, 01:44:PM »
 I think everyone barring Jeremy suffered from lapses of memory.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2014, 03:20:PM »
I think everyone barring Jeremy suffered from lapses of memory.
Methinks all this jiggling about with times did not come from Jeremy but from everybody else?

Offline maggie

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Re: Where did Jeremy leave the rifle ?
« Reply #74 on: June 24, 2014, 04:28:PM »
I think Jeremy was testing JM,as maybe in their past a conversation may have got back to him via JM so as to deem her an untrustworthy person. One way of finding out.
I wonder why JM never liked Brett Collins ? Was he too outspoken for her ? He was Jeremys' buddy so would have been more loyal than she was,,as was proved.
Would guess that JM was jealous of Brett Collins, Lookout.
Brett Collins told the police he was sure Jeremy was innocent.  He also stated that Jeremy often broke down and became upset about his family during the time before his arrest.