Author Topic: Update on the telephone engineers testimony  (Read 10037 times)

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2014, 08:19:PM »
sorry I wasnt knocking you or anyone  I fully agree that the telephone engineers information helps to put a solid slant on the presented facts  I was advised that in the early hours the cut off for unanswered calls was two units which it seems is 6 mins your information confirms this.

 I still think Ralph called Jeremy then the police before Shiela fired a shot

P.S.people who shout thier ideas as fact only convince me that they can shout

No other calls were made that night from WHF so how could Nevill have called police?

Worse yet no police say he called them.

SO why do you believe he called them?  Just because you want to believe Jeremy is innocent.

That is the same reason you believe Nevill called Jeremy.

In looking at the actually evidence it is clearl Nevill called no one.

You have no evidentiary basis for your beliefs just blind faith in Jeremy. 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline nugnug

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2014, 08:24:PM »
are so a policeman says it dident happen so it cant of done becouse policeman allways tell the truth dont they.


Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2014, 08:50:PM »
are so a policeman says it dident happen so it cant of done becouse policeman allways tell the truth dont they.

It has nothing to do with police.  Jeremy made the call not Nevill because of the following:

The shooting started in the master bedroom with both parents being shot there.  The gun had 11 bullets at the time (maximum capacity) and thus 11 shots fired.  Sheila would neither have had the knowledge nor desire to bother to load 11 instead of just loading a full magazine.  In the meantime there is no evidence at all that anything occurred downstairs prior to this and no reason for anything to happen downstairs prior to this, everyone had been sleeping it was 2-3AM when this supposedly happened.

If something had happened downstairs Nevill would have been shot there and then.  A crazy person doesn't hide a phone and remove the phone from the bedroom so right off the bat there is a big problem in claiming she went crazy simply in the middle of the night after everyone went to bed.

Never do you or any other Bamber defenders who insist Nevill called Jeremy ever address the questions asked of how he would have the opportunity to call Jeremy let alone a rational reason why he would do so.

The shooting started in the bedroom.  There was no phone there and the killer opened fire on both parents.

There was no occasion to call Jeremy let alone a reason.

The evidence Jeremy called himself:

1) Nevill had no opportunity to call

A) The killer entered the bedroom and shot both parents a combined 11 times, there was no phone in the bedroom to use prior to the killer opening fire.  All admit he didn't call after the shooting started because he could not speak and would have announced she had been shooting if that were the case. 

B) There is no evidence at all that anything happened prior to the killer entering the bedroom to shoot the parents.  The claim that the killer had Nevill downstairs not only is not supported by any evidence but makes no sense.  If SHeila were having delusions she would not make a conscious decision to allow him to use th ephone, fail to shoot him while he was on the phone and then march him upstairs to shoot him in the bedroom with his wife.  The tale makes no sense at all from the alleged standpoint of Sheila in a crazy rage and there is not a shred of evidence any such thing happened. Nevill woudl not have been given any opportunity to use the phone is the bottom line.

2) Even if by some miracle Nevill were given the opportunity to use the phone he had no reason to call Jeremy

A) Nevill was bigger and stronger than Jeremy so had a better physical ability than Jeremy to disarm Sheila

B) Nevill was in a position to disarm Sheila and had the necessity to do so, Jeremy would take 20 minutes or more to arrive.  Why would he wait 20 minutes hoping Jeremy would arrive in time to disarm her instead of doing it himself?

C) Sheila and Jeremy did not get along.  Seeing Jeremy would make things worse not better.  The person with the calming effect on her an dbest chance of disarming her peacably was Nevill. 

D) Jeremy had an answering machine and kept the phone on the bottom floor. Chances are the phone would not wake him up even if it rang incessantly and even if it did wake him he would take several minutes to reach the phone. The answering machine would pick up after 4-6 rings rings.  So Nevill could at best expect to leave a message on an answering machine that might not be listened to until many hours later.

E) If Nevill was too worried to disarm her with his bare hands and truly in fear why would he risk being shot by sitting on the phone where he would be a dead duck if she caught him?  It would take several minutes for Jeremy to answer and he would be an easy target the entire time.  If truly in fear for his safety then he would have armed himself.  There were guns, knives and other potential weapons that he would have grabbed if he had been left alone in the kitchen.

F) If too panicked to do anything himself he would have called police not put his son in harms way if he saw a real threat.  So Nevill would not have called anyone unless he saw a real threat that he could not handle himself and for a threat that great he would not call Jeremy he would call police. 

3) Jeremy lied about the phone being disconnected and being able to immediately use it

4) Sheila didn't beat or kill anyone else or even load the gun

A) Sheila would have had elevated lead levels on her hands had she loaded the bullets in the gun as claimed and in a frenzy loading fast would also have damaged at least the nail of the finger she used to push the bullets in the magazine

B) Sheila would have had back spatter of Nevill's blood on her body had she been the one who delivered the blows to Nevill in the kitchen.  She also would have broken several nails by beating him so severely.  The rifle stock broke and his head bashed in.  One has to hold the rifle tightly to do this and when a rifle hits something hard there is a jolt to the person wielding it. The notion her nails would not have been touched is preposterous.  She also would have cut her feet on the crockery on the floor of the kitchen and been likely to get step in blood or sugar. 

C) The killer of the other 4 victims would have had high velocity back spatter as well as gunshot residue on the killer's body and clothing.  She had neither.

D) There is no evidence at all to suggest she would be at risk for any delusions around 2:30 AM.  Had she stopped taking her medication or were high on narcotics or drunk she could be at risk but none of these things were the case. Moreover, because of everyone else was sleeping there would be no risk of them causing agitaiton.

5) Sheila didn't kill herself

A) She was killed with the suppressor attached to the gun and could not have put it away after her death and could only have potentially killed herself with the suppressor if she stepped on the trigger with her toe but was seated when she was shot not standing.

B) Sheila was seated when killed and then moved flat shortly thereafter by someone else who moved her body flat.  She can't have moved her own body after she was dead.  Once flat blood dripped down the side of her neck and pooled on the floor.

C) The bible was placed in the pool of blood then repeatedly opened and closed while the blood was still wet.  She could not have done these things since she was dead.

6) The evidence thus establishes that Sheila didn't do anything but rather was framed. There is substantial evidence that th eperson who framed her was Jeremy and this fake phone call is one of the ways he attempted to frame her.  Since she didn't do anything the claim Nevill called to say she did is sheer nonsense.  Jeremy lied about many things including telling police Sheila had fired all the guns in the house and had gone shooting with him.  He admitted later he hadn't seen her shoot a gun.

What evidence is there that Nevill made this call? None.

The evidence is that someone made a call to Goldhanger, never hung up at WHF and the phone remained off the hook from the point of dialing until after police entered and hung the phone up.

Jeremy supperter have never suggested how Nevill would have the opportunity to make the call let alone a reason why.  You skip that inquiry including issues related to Jeremy's answering machine and how long it would take to answer.  You just insist he somehow would have had the opportunity to call without Sheila stopping him (he according to you decided to make a plea to Jeremy instead of grabbing a gun or other weapon) and that at the very end Sheila walked in the kitchen.  She is in a rage and sees him on the phone, what does she do does she shoot him like a crazy person in a rage would do?  No.  Does she order him to hang up the phone?  No. According to Jeremy supporters she walks over to the phone and she pushes down the buttons the receiver sits on to end the call.  In so doing she has only one hand on the rifle. She has to be right next to Nevill, too close to aim the gun at him well. So instead of shooting him she gives him the perfect opportunity to disarm her.  Nevill is so desperate he called Jeremy supposedly but doesn't take advantage of the golden opportunity to disarm her instead he does nothing. 

He does nothing but he next either runs away to the bedroom or she marches him to the bedroom so she can blow both parents away in the same room instead of killing them separately.  Why would she want to kill them together?  This doesn't comport with the crazy rage claims. 

In the meantime the notion she killed anyone is not supported by the evidence and the evidence proves she didn't kill herself.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline lookout

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2014, 09:06:PM »
 Let's just say that the killings were a joint effort,,but without Jeremy !

Offline Jane

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2014, 09:10:PM »


Never do you or any other Bamber defenders who insist Nevill called Jeremy ever address the questions asked of how he would have the opportunity to call Jeremy let alone a rational reason why he would d.

Jeremy supperter have never suggested how Nevill would have the opportunity to make the call let alone a reason why. 


I'm not going to bother to go through it all again but actually YES we HAVE addressed those questions but it seems that there may be certain points WE raise that you aren't interested in responding to. Makes it easier for you to tell us we don't address certain points that YOU raise, I guess.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2014, 09:45:PM »
i cant think how many times that qustions been raised and answered.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2014, 09:51:PM »
The transcript is not available online.

I am not bothering to challenge your claims about them not being able to prove who hung up the phone first.

I said even if your claims are taken as true that doesn't establish that Nevill phoned Jeremy.  You claimed that your evidence proves Jeremy calls, it doesn't do so whatsoever.

Based only on your alleged evidence it is not more likely that Nevill called Jeremy than that Jeremy called his own house and left the phone off the hook. 

We have Jeremy's claim Nevill called.

In evaluating a claim you have to evaluate whether the claim makes sense and what other evidence exists to either support or refute it.  All the points I raised are the ones to evaluate the validity of the claim.

You refuse to discuss such because everyone knows Nevill didn't make that call.  Jeremy made up that call just like he made up the claim that Sheila shot every gun in the house which bugs you to hear because you want to pretend he didn't try to frame her though deep down you know he did.

You have the same reaction as people who want to pretend Amanda Knox is guilty.  They know it isn't true but are willing to pretend anyway and dey reality to keep the farce going even if it entails pretending she invited Guede there though the evidence proves he broke in.

The truth shall set you free just stop with the pretense and alleviate your blood pressure problems you will be better off.
Truth? You can't handle the truth, to quote a phrase. If you honestly believed in the truth you would do as I have done and fully investigate the claims of those who assert what they know not. On another note your reluctance in proving my "very strong case" establishes the fact that you are only interested in that ahem "truth" that seems to back up your claims. I AM interested in the truth and IU will challenge anything that appears to me to be too neatly put together. To say that the telephone engineer's testimony is not available online appears to me to be tantamount to saying I haven't even seen his testimony, but rather I got the information second hand.

So let's just recap shall we?
(1) Jeremy claims to have received a phone call from his father in the early hours of 7th August 1985.

(2) Indeed according to a telephone engineer such a call was made from WHF that morning and note, only one phone call.

(3) Jeremy could not have made that call himself from WHF and then peddled home on a bike. Why? Because (a) It would take him at least 20 minutes, even if he cycled like the clappers. And why is this so important? Because (b) The cut-off point of the ringing in those days was around 6 minutes and it is a fact that Jeremy could not get home in time to answer it.

(4) The telephone engineer's information was wrong. He "allegedly" stated that Jeremy would have hung up the receiver first. Through investigating this I found that there was no way for an engineer to tell who hung up the phone first.

Logical conclusion: Jeremy claimed to have received a phone call that morning from his father. One phone call was indeed made that morning from WHF. So who was at the farm that morning to make that call? Well I've just established beyond doubt that it could not have been Jeremy. So logically it must have been Nevill.

ps: I am currently investigating if it was possible to know the time of that phone call from WHF. I'll let you know if I am successful.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2014, 10:20:PM »
I am having a crystal ball moment now of what your latest story will be:

Drug dealer decides to kill Jeremy.  Instead of just going to his house to do it they decide to kill his family and bait him to WHF.  Killer's decide to use Nevill's own gun even.  They have Nevill call Jeremy to try to sucker him there with a bogus story about Sheila going nuts. 

They march him upstairs and try to kill him both parents in the bedroom but fail to do so.  Instead of using their own weapons they only use his rifle because they decided to frame Sheila. Jeremy never shows but they learn police are on the way cause they split.

---

Is any of this credible?  Not at all!

Ah, that's where you get your info!  ;)
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Offline nugnug

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2014, 10:27:PM »
i just thought considering everybody knows that the police can check weather a call was made or not why would he make up a story about a call.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2014, 10:37:PM »

I'm not going to bother to go through it all again but actually YES we HAVE addressed those questions but it seems that there may be certain points WE raise that you aren't interested in responding to. Makes it easier for you to tell us we don't address certain points that YOU raise, I guess.

You never went through it ever. Your claim you did is false.  This is the classic dishonest response from someone unable to refute evidence. The bogus claim you already did.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Adam

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2014, 10:44:PM »
It seems this forum has found it's own Hercule Poirot.

Investigating things none of Jeremy's lawyers apparently have not thought of.  Who is writing facts but not quoting a source.

I have never claimed Jeremy picked up his own phone call. Whether he did or not is neither here or there. I had to ring up my home phone from a call box once. To make sure my home phone worked. In the days before mobiles. Several minutes later I returned home. Guess what, the phone was ringing.

His answering machine may have taken his WHF call. Which shows the WHF call was answered.
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline nugnug

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2014, 10:44:PM »
much like you dishonest response about saying you had seen the testimony.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 10:46:PM by nugnug »

Offline Jan

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2014, 10:44:PM »
You never went through it ever. Your claim you did is false.  This is the classic dishonest response from someone unable to refute evidence. The bogus claim you already did.

Excuse me - have you read all the posts on this forum? If not how can you make such claims ?

That is extremely rude - but I guess you are just like Adam - bandy false allegations about and then never apologise because it is below you.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2014, 10:46:PM »
You never went through it ever. Your claim you did is false.  This is the classic dishonest response from someone unable to refute evidence. The bogus claim you already did.

I think that's a case of pots and kettle's, you haven't responded to lots of things and the fact that you flood the board with your opinions makes it difficult for people to respond to a whole post while also trying to live a life! April is NOT dishonest and I have noticed you use this accusation now and again simply because people don't agree with you.
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Offline Jane

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Re: Update on the telephone engineers testimony
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2014, 10:53:PM »
You never went through it ever. Your claim you did is false.  This is the classic dishonest response from someone unable to refute evidence. The bogus claim you already did.



And yours is the classic response of someone who wishes to evade a certain subject.