Update on the telephone engineers testimony

[grahameb]

I read your post, all your post estbalishes is that SOMEONE made a call from WHF to Goldhanger.  Nothing more.

You had no basis at all to suggest the person who did was Nevill but insist it was.

I went through all the considerations related to whether Nevill would have the opportunity and reason to call.  Since he would have neither a reason nor opportunity you intentionally refuse to discuss such considerations.

By running away you lost the debate by default.

Ok prove me wrong. Show me the court transcript where the "expert" said that Jeremy was the first to hang up the phone. I established from around 4 telephone engineers that it was impossible to say one way or the other who was the first to hang up. Unless he was (1) in on the conversation. Or (2) Monitoring with special equipment at the very time of the phone call....charlie 

[Alias]

scipio is hell bent on making friends here!

[grahameb]

Jeremy grew and sold small amounts of canabis if he was involved in anything bigger it would be foolish to draw attention to yourself by doing this. big time dealers would not want to know him if he was a security risk.
the drug squad would be interested in drugs special branch I suspect would only be interested if it was some sort of funding operation IRA etc or something political.
if he was into anything like this he could have spilled the beans and cut a deal of some sort ,conspiracy theories running rife David Ike teratory

I think this is all rather silly. as the RUC used to say "its an ordinary decent criminal"

All I was doing in bringing the subject up wilf, was to emphasise the point that no engineer or expert or anyone could tell who hung up the phone first unless they were monitoring the phone at the time.
We must also not forget that the probable cut-off point of the ringing phone was only 6 minutes. Thus making it "impossible" for Jeremy to set the phone ringing and then ride home to answer it, even if he rode like the clappers. Or even if he took his invisible car.

Now may I suggest that in the light of these established facts not scipio. nor me, nor anyone else can write their scenario with any confidence until these questions are answered FIRST of all?

[scipio_usmc]

Ok prove me wrong. Show me the court transcript where the "expert" said that Jeremy was the first to hang up the phone. I established from around 4 telephone engineers that it was impossible to say one way or the other who was the first to hang up. Unless he was (1) in on the conversation. Or (2) Monitoring with special equipment at the very time of the phone call....charlie 

At BEST your supposed evidence establishes it is POSSIBLE that someone could have hung up the phone and immediately took it off the hook after calling Jeremy's house.

It doesn't prove that this DID happen.  Based on your own claims it is just as possible for the pohone to have remained off the hook at WHF after dialing Jeremy's house and no one hanging it up there.

The questions asked of you regarding how Nevill would have the opportunity to clal and why fully apply since you are claiming he did.

Unless you can answer ALL the questions posed then you have ZERO evidence that he called.


But the fact that Sheila can't have killed herself and didn't kill anyone else is th estrongest evidence of all that Nevill never called. 

The lack of any opportunity and reason is bad enough but that is the the coup de grace.

Each time you run away from the debate over the issues raise dit simply shows you know Jerem ynever made the call and are simply full of crap in trying to claim he did because you don't want to admit Jeremy's guilt.   

[lookout]

scipio is hell bent on making friends here!

One thing for sure,Alias,,with a friend like him,you wouldn't need an enemy.

[grahameb]

At BEST your supposed evidence establishes it is POSSIBLE that someone could have hung up the phone and immediately took it off the hook after calling Jeremy's house.

It doesn't prove that this DID happen.  Based on your own claims it is just as possible for the pohone to have remained off the hook at WHF after dialing Jeremy's house and no one hanging it up there.

The questions asked of you regarding how Nevill would have the opportunity to clal and why fully apply since you are claiming he did.

Unless you can answer ALL the questions posed then you have ZERO evidence that he called.


But the fact that Sheila can't have killed herself and didn't kill anyone else is th estrongest evidence of all that Nevill never called. 

The lack of any opportunity and reason is bad enough but that is the the coup de grace.

Each time you run away from the debate over the issues raise dit simply shows you know Jerem ynever made the call and are simply full of crap in trying to claim he did because you don't want to admit Jeremy's guilt.

Scipio I've asked you to show me the court transcript of the so called telephone expert. So far you have not done so. Are you prepared to do this or not? If not, then direct me to the place where you got the idea from. Wouldn't you agree that, that is a good starting point?
Also scipio I am not running away from any debate. But I am trying to pin you down to the very basics. It is you who are flinging out these ideas all over the place of how Jeremy did the crime not me. All I am doing is questioning you on just ONE POINT. The telephone call. Which it appears that you are either for some reason reluctant to answer directly. Or indeed cannot answer, because you have nothing.

[susan]

Alias bet he is on your Christmas card list

[grahameb]

At BEST your supposed evidence establishes it is POSSIBLE that someone could have hung up the phone and immediately took it off the hook after calling Jeremy's house.

It doesn't prove that this DID happen.  Based on your own claims it is just as possible for the pohone to have remained off the hook at WHF after dialing Jeremy's house and no one hanging it up there.

The questions asked of you regarding how Nevill would have the opportunity to clal and why fully apply since you are claiming he did.

Unless you can answer ALL the questions posed then you have ZERO evidence that he called.


But the fact that Sheila can't have killed herself and didn't kill anyone else is th estrongest evidence of all that Nevill never called. 

The lack of any opportunity and reason is bad enough but that is the the coup de grace.

Each time you run away from the debate over the issues raise dit simply shows you know Jerem ynever made the call and are simply full of crap in trying to claim he did because you don't want to admit Jeremy's guilt.

Indeed I have successfully established the fact that it could not have been Jeremy who made the call to himself from WHF. Therefore the logical argument is that it must have been someone else who phoned from WHF. That person according to Jeremy at least sounded like his father. It's quite simple charlie why can't you grasp it? What, is your prejudice getting in the way?

[Alias]

Alias bet he is on your Christmas card list

I hope not. Not sure I will have time to read 37 pages of Christmas greetings, so much to do around that time of year.

[wilf]

All I was doing in bringing the subject up wilf, was to emphasise the point that no engineer or expert or anyone could tell who hung up the phone first unless they were monitoring the phone at the time.
We must also not forget that the probable cut-off point of the ringing phone was only 6 minutes. Thus making it "impossible" for Jeremy to set the phone ringing and then ride home to answer it, even if he rode like the clappers. Or even if he took his invisible car.

Now may I suggest that in the light of these established facts not scipio. nor me, nor anyone else can write their scenario with any confidence until these questions are answered FIRST of all?

sorry I wasnt knocking you or anyone  I fully agree that the telephone engineers information helps to put a solid slant on the presented facts  I was advised that in the early hours the cut off for unanswered calls was two units which it seems is 6 mins your information confirms this.

 I still think Ralph called Jeremy then the police before Shiela fired a shot

P.S.people who shout thier ideas as fact only convince me that they can shout

[scipio_usmc]

Scipio I've asked you to show me the court transcript of the so called telephone expert. So far you have not done so. Are you prepared to do this or not? If not, then direct me to the place where you got the idea from. Wouldn't you agree that, that is a good starting point?
Also scipio I am not running away from any debate. But I am trying to pin you down to the very basics. It is you who are flinging out these ideas all over the place of how Jeremy did the crime not me. All I am doing is questioning you on just ONE POINT. The telephone call. Which it appears that you are either for some reason reluctant to answer directly. Or indeed cannot answer, because you have nothing.

The transcript is not available online.

I am not bothering to challenge your claims about them not being able to prove who hung up the phone first.

I said even if your claims are taken as true that doesn't establish that Nevill phoned Jeremy.  You claimed that your evidence proves Jeremy calls, it doesn't do so whatsoever.

Based only on your alleged evidence it is not more likely that Nevill called Jeremy than that Jeremy called his own house and left the phone off the hook. 

We have Jeremy's claim Nevill called.

In evaluating a claim you have to evaluate whether the claim makes sense and what other evidence exists to either support or refute it.  All the points I raised are the ones to evaluate the validity of the claim.

You refuse to discuss such because everyone knows Nevill didn't make that call.  Jeremy made up that call just like he made up the claim that Sheila shot every gun in the house which bugs you to hear because you want to pretend he didn't try to frame her though deep down you know he did.

You have the same reaction as people who want to pretend Amanda Knox is guilty.  They know it isn't true but are willing to pretend anyway and dey reality to keep the farce going even if it entails pretending she invited Guede there though the evidence proves he broke in.

The truth shall set you free just stop with the pretense and alleviate your blood pressure problems you will be better off.
 

[nugnug]

are why does that not suprise me its convently not available on line.

[lookout]

sorry I wasnt knocking you or anyone  I fully agree that the telephone engineers information helps to put a solid slant on the presented facts  I was advised that in the early hours the cut off for unanswered calls was two units which it seems is 6 mins your information confirms this.

 I still think Ralph called Jeremy then the police before Shiela fired a shot

P.S.people who shout thier ideas as fact only convince me that they can shout

They're called empty vessels,Wilf.

[susan]

Ha Ha Alias understand where you are coming from all gets so boring after the first line

[lookout]

 Boring ? He'd talk a glass eye to sleep.