Author Topic: The last ultimate test of gun, to prove sound moderator was not used in shooting  (Read 49870 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Look at reply 738 for starters where Harters posted 2 statements.  Mike is intentionally lying on this point just like others.  Given the number of lies I have seen from Mike just in the past 2 weeks I fail to see how you or anyone who posts on this site can consider anything he says to be worthy of consideration.
On the contrary: Mike has done sterling work on the issue of the silencer,which was a crucial part of the trial at the time. Though I don't accept that Police shot Sheila with a silencer he has cast doubt on its role in the killings which could well affect any subsequent appeal or call for retrial.

Offline grahameb

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On the contrary: Mike has done sterling work on the issue of the silencer,which was a crucial part of the trial at the time. Though I don't accept that Police shot Sheila with a silencer he has cast doubt on its role in the killings which could well affect any subsequent appeal or call for retrial.
No I don't go along with the notion that police shot her either. If she was still a threat then they would have shot her from a distance.
The only feasible way would be if the gun went off as they were moving it? Not sure?

Offline scipio_usmc

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On the contrary: Mike has done sterling work on the issue of the silencer,which was a crucial part of the trial at the time. Though I don't accept that Police shot Sheila with a silencer he has cast doubt on its role in the killings which could well affect any subsequent appeal or call for retrial.

I must have missed it, what sterling work did he do?

Things started out with him asserting a group many think is a fiction of his mind CYCLOPS (an alleged  cold case group though this is a closed case not cold case so makes no sense) would be able to test the gun and prove it had Sheila's blood in it because a pullthrough would have missed blood trapped in the rifling.  The reality though is that a pull through can thoroughly clean out a barrel and there is no evidence at all of a cold case squad being assigned to review the Bamber case.

Next he jumped to the moderator.  In the past he alleged there were 3 different moderators.  This time he reduced it to 2 moderators.

One moderator was of course the one provided by the family to police on 8/12/85 which did in fact occur.  The second moderator was one he initially claimed was provided by Ann Eaton in September.  After a while that changed to claiming it was collected from WHF on the day of the murders by Stanley Jones but never offered a shred of proof to establish one was collected period that date let alone by Jones.

He initially alleged 1 moderator had the paint evidence while the other had the blood evidence and they were merged together.

He subsequently abandoned that claim and alleged neither moderator had any evidence when initially in police custody.

He initally claimed 1 moderator was in police custody while another was in the lab though he offered no evidence at all to prove such. 

Subsequently he alleged the moderator found at WHF on 8/7/85 was given to the family at the end of August after nothign was found on it or in it and was in the custody of the family while the other was in the lab being tested.

Upon be challenged as to why the police would give the family a moderator that had been collected from WHF thus would have to be returned to Jeremy and if true they had done so then his claim 1 was in police custody while the other was at the lab could not be true, he changed his claims again.

He changed to claiming that the one collected from the family was returned to them at the end of August but it was doctored by the family then returned to police on 9/11/85 and then sent to the lab on 9/13/85.   

He initially alleged the moderator collected from WHF on the day of the murders by Stanley Jones was taken into evidence as SJ/1 while the one from the fmaily was SBJ/1 but later changed swapped the designations claiming the one by police was SBJ/1 and the one from the family SJ/1.

Then he changed course and started alleging that items taken from Colchester were in fact taken from WHF by Hammersley and had been classified DRH/1-4 but were later changed to DRH 50-53 and police then used DRH/1-4 for casings they pretended were found in the master bedroom.  The document he used to try to pvrove this was correcting errors in Hammersley's typed statement where the typist messed up and marked DRH 1-4 for items taken from Colchester.  How coudl items taken from Colchester have been found at WHF on the day of the murders?  His claims were a complete sham.

At the end of the day what did he prove?

All he proved is that he was making up things as he went along and will distort to the bitter end.  He kept changing his claims over and over again.  It is in black and white to see how his claims were being formuated and molded until he finally was happy with the final tale.

What evidence did he provide to establish his final tale?  None.

What evidence was provided to establish a moderator was collected on the day of the murders from WHF?  None

What evidence was provided to establish SBJ/1 was designated to a moderator other than the one collected from Ann Eaton on 8/12/85?  None.

What evidence was provided to establish SJ/1 was designated to the moderator collected from Ann Eaton on 8/12/85?  None other than evidence provided by me which established that SJ/1 was the tentiatve classification Cook assigned in his notebook but after consulting with Jones was changed to SBJ/1 so the number used on all the official documents was SBJ/1 and that includes documents conveying it to the lab.  So the lab documents referring to analyzing SBJ/1 are clearly referring to the moderator from the family. 

What evidence was provided to establish that police returned the moderator to the family at the end of August?  None

What evidence was provided to establish Ann Eaton gave a moderator to police in September?  None

The only thing that came from this thread is that Mike is a liar and can't be trusted.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Steve_uk

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I must have missed it, what sterling work did he do?

Things started out with him asserting a group many think is a fiction of his mind CYCLOPS (an alleged  cold case group though this is a closed case not cold case so makes no sense) would be able to test the gun and prove it had Sheila's blood in it because a pullthrough would have missed blood trapped in the rifling.  The reality though is that a pull through can thoroughly clean out a barrel and there is no evidence at all of a cold case squad being assigned to review the Bamber case.

Next he jumped to the moderator.  In the past he alleged there were 3 different moderators.  This time he reduced it to 2 moderators.

One moderator was of course the one provided by the family to police on 8/12/85 which did in fact occur.  The second moderator was one he initially claimed was provided by Ann Eaton in September.  After a while that changed to claiming it was collected from WHF on the day of the murders by Stanley Jones but never offered a shred of proof to establish one was collected period that date let alone by Jones.

He initially alleged 1 moderator had the paint evidence while the other had the blood evidence and they were merged together.

He subsequently abandoned that claim and alleged neither moderator had any evidence when initially in police custody.

He initally claimed 1 moderator was in police custody while another was in the lab though he offered no evidence at all to prove such. 

Subsequently he alleged the moderator found at WHF on 8/7/85 was given to the family at the end of August after nothign was found on it or in it and was in the custody of the family while the other was in the lab being tested.

Upon be challenged as to why the police would give the family a moderator that had been collected from WHF thus would have to be returned to Jeremy and if true they had done so then his claim 1 was in police custody while the other was at the lab could not be true, he changed his claims again.

He changed to claiming that the one collected from the family was returned to them at the end of August but it was doctored by the family then returned to police on 9/11/85 and then sent to the lab on 9/13/85.   

He initially alleged the moderator collected from WHF on the day of the murders by Stanley Jones was taken into evidence as SJ/1 while the one from the fmaily was SBJ/1 but later changed swapped the designations claiming the one by police was SBJ/1 and the one from the family SJ/1.

Then he changed course and started alleging that items taken from Colchester were in fact taken from WHF by Hammersley and had been classified DRH/1-4 but were later changed to DRH 50-53 and police then used DRH/1-4 for casings they pretended were found in the master bedroom.  The document he used to try to pvrove this was correcting errors in Hammersley's typed statement where the typist messed up and marked DRH 1-4 for items taken from Colchester.  How coudl items taken from Colchester have been found at WHF on the day of the murders?  His claims were a complete sham.

At the end of the day what did he prove?

All he proved is that he was making up things as he went along and will distort to the bitter end.  He kept changing his claims over and over again.  It is in black and white to see how his claims were being formuated and molded until he finally was happy with the final tale.

What evidence did he provide to establish his final tale?  None.

What evidence was provided to establish a moderator was collected on the day of the murders from WHF?  None

What evidence was provided to establish SBJ/1 was designated to a moderator other than the one collected from Ann Eaton on 8/12/85?  None.

What evidence was provided to establish SJ/1 was designated to the moderator collected from Ann Eaton on 8/12/85?  None other than evidence provided by me which established that SJ/1 was the tentiatve classification Cook assigned in his notebook but after consulting with Jones was changed to SBJ/1 so the number used on all the official documents was SBJ/1 and that includes documents conveying it to the lab.  So the lab documents referring to analyzing SBJ/1 are clearly referring to the moderator from the family. 

What evidence was provided to establish that police returned the moderator to the family at the end of August?  None

What evidence was provided to establish Ann Eaton gave a moderator to police in September?  None

The only thing that came from this thread is that Mike is a liar and can't be trusted.
Well was Taff Jones playing with a silencer on his work desk or not..did a silencer scratch the mantlepiece or not..http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/feb/21/jeremy-bamber-murder-conviction-doubt

Offline grahameb

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I must have missed it, what sterling work did he do?

Things started out with him asserting a group many think is a fiction of his mind CYCLOPS (an alleged  cold case group though this is a closed case not cold case so makes no sense) would be able to test the gun and prove it had Sheila's blood in it because a pullthrough would have missed blood trapped in the rifling.  The reality though is that a pull through can thoroughly clean out a barrel and there is no evidence at all of a cold case squad being assigned to review the Bamber case.

Next he jumped to the moderator.  In the past he alleged there were 3 different moderators.  This time he reduced it to 2 moderators.

One moderator was of course the one provided by the family to police on 8/12/85 which did in fact occur.  The second moderator was one he initially claimed was provided by Ann Eaton in September.  After a while that changed to claiming it was collected from WHF on the day of the murders by Stanley Jones but never offered a shred of proof to establish one was collected period that date let alone by Jones.

He initially alleged 1 moderator had the paint evidence while the other had the blood evidence and they were merged together.

He subsequently abandoned that claim and alleged neither moderator had any evidence when initially in police custody.

He initally claimed 1 moderator was in police custody while another was in the lab though he offered no evidence at all to prove such. 

Subsequently he alleged the moderator found at WHF on 8/7/85 was given to the family at the end of August after nothign was found on it or in it and was in the custody of the family while the other was in the lab being tested.

Upon be challenged as to why the police would give the family a moderator that had been collected from WHF thus would have to be returned to Jeremy and if true they had done so then his claim 1 was in police custody while the other was at the lab could not be true, he changed his claims again.

He changed to claiming that the one collected from the family was returned to them at the end of August but it was doctored by the family then returned to police on 9/11/85 and then sent to the lab on 9/13/85.   

He initially alleged the moderator collected from WHF on the day of the murders by Stanley Jones was taken into evidence as SJ/1 while the one from the fmaily was SBJ/1 but later changed swapped the designations claiming the one by police was SBJ/1 and the one from the family SJ/1.

Then he changed course and started alleging that items taken from Colchester were in fact taken from WHF by Hammersley and had been classified DRH/1-4 but were later changed to DRH 50-53 and police then used DRH/1-4 for casings they pretended were found in the master bedroom.  The document he used to try to pvrove this was correcting errors in Hammersley's typed statement where the typist messed up and marked DRH 1-4 for items taken from Colchester.  How coudl items taken from Colchester have been found at WHF on the day of the murders?  His claims were a complete sham.

At the end of the day what did he prove?

All he proved is that he was making up things as he went along and will distort to the bitter end.  He kept changing his claims over and over again.  It is in black and white to see how his claims were being formuated and molded until he finally was happy with the final tale.

What evidence did he provide to establish his final tale?  None.

What evidence was provided to establish a moderator was collected on the day of the murders from WHF?  None

What evidence was provided to establish SBJ/1 was designated to a moderator other than the one collected from Ann Eaton on 8/12/85?  None.

What evidence was provided to establish SJ/1 was designated to the moderator collected from Ann Eaton on 8/12/85?  None other than evidence provided by me which established that SJ/1 was the tentiatve classification Cook assigned in his notebook but after consulting with Jones was changed to SBJ/1 so the number used on all the official documents was SBJ/1 and that includes documents conveying it to the lab.  So the lab documents referring to analyzing SBJ/1 are clearly referring to the moderator from the family. 

What evidence was provided to establish that police returned the moderator to the family at the end of August?  None

What evidence was provided to establish Ann Eaton gave a moderator to police in September?  None

The only thing that came from this thread is that Mike is a liar and can't be trusted.
Like he created this forum so that numpties like us can post our views about Bamber.

No-Bits

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Like he created this forum so that numpties like us can post our views about Bamber.

I might be having false memories, but I think I remember the site was registered to a certain Italian advocate.
Then about three years ago Mike had the whole thing transferred over to a new domain.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Well was Taff Jones playing with a silencer on his work desk or not..did a silencer scratch the mantlepiece or not..http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/feb/21/jeremy-bamber-murder-conviction-doubt

No evidence was put forth to establish Taff Jones had the moderator at his desk at any time it supposedly was elsewhere.  Bare bones allegations were made that it was used as a paperweight at his desk but no evidence was offered.

The video you posted makes no mention of this nor did the lawyers alleged such during the appeal so far as I can find.

The photographic claims were thoroughly discredited by experts hired by the government and rejected by the CCRC because the mothodology used was flawed and not scientifically sound. 

The photos were taken too far away and not at the right angle to be able to assess whether there were scratches or not. It would be like me taking a photo of my briefcase from the distance and claiming there is no damage though there is in fact a scratch in the leather that can be captured by the camera if a photo is taken close up but not at a distance. Evne though angle is not an issue distance alone will prevent a photo capturing it.

If one has an extraordinary camera there can be ways of enhancing photos taken to very minute degrees. The quality of the camera/film used by the police though doesn't allow for blowing up a portion of the photo enough to capture such details.  So the fix was in there would be no way to detect the marks no matter how advanced one enlarges the photos.

His credibility was also seriously in quesiton based on his claims he was able to blow up a speck in the photo and to blow up Sheila's toes enough to say the speck was nail varnish, that Sheila was missing a tiny bit of nail varnish and that the shape matched perfectly.  His supposed efforts were not considered realistically possible.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline grahameb

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I might be having false memories, but I think I remember the site was registered to a certain Italian advocate.
Then about three years ago Mike had the whole thing transferred over to a new domain.
No Hartley I don't think so. I believe there was another forum that was in existence before this one. Can't remember the name, but it sounded Italian. I know! We can look it up. :)

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« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 10:23:PM by Grahame »

Offline scipio_usmc

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No Hartley I don't think so. I believe there was another forum that was in existence before this one. Can't remember the name, but it sounded Italian. I know! We can look it up. :)

This says NGB is paying for it:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5395.0.html
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

No-Bits

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No Hartley I don't think so. I believe there was another forum that was in existence before this one. Can't remember the name, but it sounded Italian. I know! We can look it up. :)

Yeah it was, it used to just be www.jeremybamber.co.uk and was registered to Stefano.

Offline mike tesko

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I am still waiting to see the signed versions of the witness statements made for members of the raid team by another, which has yet to be produced for everyone's attention...
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 10:54:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Also, why does key police officer (DS JONES) involved in SILENCER evidence have to make false entries in a dodgy pocketbook which had three start dates upon its front cover - remember that this police officer as well as being the key police officer at the heart of the silencer debackle, was also heavily involved in Julie Mugford testifying after police coached her about what they required her to say during over 30 coaching sessions...
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 11:16:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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What happened to the original pocketbook entries referring to when he took possession of a silencer (SBJ/1) from the scene on 7th August 1985?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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We now know that there was only one silencer (SBJ/1 - DB/1) which mattered in the case, this being the only silencer inside which Sheila's blood group evidence (A, EAP BA, HP 2-1 and the human / animal AK1)...

It is my case, that this silencer was not the one found at the scene by relatives...

If true, convictions have to be quashed...
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 11:23:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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We now know that there was only one silencer (SBJ/1 - DB/1) which mattered in the case, this being the only silencer inside which Sheila's blood group evidence (A, EAP BA, HP 2-1 and the human / animal AK1)...

It is my case, that this silencer was not the one found at the scene by relatives...

If true, convictions have to be quashed...

Key issue, involves which silencer was at the Lab' at Huntingdon on 11th September 1985, inside which the key flake of blood was found?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...