The last ultimate test of gun, to prove sound moderator was not used in shooting

[mike tesko]

Lets take the matter a step further...

After the police surgeon, Dr Craig, and PI 'Bob' Miller arrived in time to pronounce Sheila as being on the far side of the bed, with what appears to be a solitary bullet wound to her neck, along comes DS 'Stan' Jones, and  DC Clarke to the scene, and they both visit the main bedroom and view Sheila's body on the bed, with a bullet wound to her neck. DCI 'Taff' Jones, sends DS 'Stan' Jones, along with DC Clarke, to take a witness statement from Jeremy at his cottage in Goldhanger...

Well, well, well...

No sooner do Jones and Clarke arrive at Jeremys cottage, than one or other of them, or both of them, are telling Ann Eaton and the others that Sheila has shot and killed the others, and that she has taken her own life by way of a single shot to the neck...

Ann Eaton, states that she cannot remember which police officer told her that Sheila's body and the body of June Bamber were on the bed together, one at the side of the other, with the rifle on the bed between both bodies...

Hang on, Ann...

I can help you out there, since there were only two police officers at Jeremys cottage on the morning of the shootings, er, DS 'Stan' Jones, and er, DC Clarke...

Er, Ann, can you remember now?

[scipio_usmc]

Dr Craig did not wander around the crime scene unaccompanied, he was in the company of the shooter (of Sheila) PS Woodcock, and PI 'Bob' Miller, at the time he viewed Sheila's body on the far side of the bed. Miller in his statement also records for the fact that Sheila's body is on the far side of the bed, with what appears to be a solitary shot to the neck, so 'Bob' Miller saw what the police surgeon saw, he saw Sheila on the bed, he saw only a solitary bullet hole on her neck, the time was 8.44am, on the morning of 7th August 1985...

Craig noted only 1 bullet wound to each body.  He didn't inspect the bodies carefully to count every wound.  His job was to see if they were dead and give the apaprent cause of death to  those on the scene so they woudl know what to look for.  He determined they were all dead and noted 1 wound to each body to say the apparent cause of death was gun shot wound.

If she only received the first wound she wound have eventually died from bleeding out.  But that didn't happen because the second shot was delivered within seconds of the first shot. The second shot fired well after the first would not have bled in the manner it did and there would have been substantially more blood from the first wound.   

You are not following the evidence.  You are desperately trying to come up with a way for Jeremy to be innocent simply.

PS Woodcock (the shooter of Sheila) was also present at 8.44am, when the police surgeon and 'Bob' Miller viewed Sheila's body on the bed in the main bedroom at a time when they both only saw a solitary shot to Sheila's neck - now this is where it gets interesting because in Woodcocks witness statement he states that much earlier when he first entered the main bedroom (and this was long before the arrival of the police surgeon and 'Bob' Miller at the scene), Woodcock states he found Sheila on the bedroom floor with two bullet wounds on her neck...

Well, hang on a minute, if Woodcock saw Sheila's body on the floor with two bullet wounds on her neck prior to the police surgeon and 'Bob' Miller arriving at the scene, how come Sheila was on the bed with only a solitary bullet wound to her neck afterwards at 8.44am?

There is no evidence she wa son the bed ever.  Moreover, Miller said, "APPEARS to be" he did npt look at her well.  Other officers took a closer look than he did.  Dr Craig only noted 1 would on each victim fo rth ereason I cited he didn't say there was only 1 wound on each victim though. He noted a wound on each that could have been fatal to suggest their apparent cause of death was gun-shot wound.   

[mike tesko]

The police surgeon, Dr Craig, has never said that Sheila had been dead several hours prior to him pronouncing her as being dead. It was the pathologist who said that and he performed the autopsy at around 3.30pm on the afternoon of 7th August 1985.The police surgeon states that he did not carry out a thorough examination of the condition of Sheila's body at the scene when he pronounced her as being dead, because he said there was no need to in the circumstances reported to him by the police and the presence of the solitary shot to the neck, minus any blood trail - it becomes apparent, therefore, that the bullet wound the police surgeon was talking about was the lower non fatal wound with hardly any blood at all running, pouring or leaking from it, which caused Craig to falsely assume that Sheila was dead at that time, when she was not...

[mike tesko]

The police surgeon, Dr Craig, has never said that Sheila had been dead several hours prior to him pronouncing her as being dead. It was the pathologist who said that and he performed the autopsy at around 3.30pm on the afternoon of 7th August 1985.The police surgeon states that he did not carry out a thorough examination of the condition of Sheila's body at the scene when he pronounced her as being dead, because he said there was no need to in the circumstances reported to him by the police and the presence of the solitary shot to the neck, minus any blood trail - it becomes apparent, therefore, that the bullet wound the police surgeon was talking about was the lower non fatal wound with hardly any blood at all running, pouring or leaking from it, which caused Craig to falsely assume that Sheila was dead at that time, when she was not...

A bullet hole in the neck, no obvious signs of breathing, very little blood exiting the wound, must have caused the police surgeon to wrongly assume that Sheila's heart had stopped beating...

As a result, he miscalculates Sheila as being dead at 8.44am, when in truth she was still barely alive, unconscious, so to speak...

Shot beneath chin with free flowing blood after 8.44am, inflicted whilst police and training officers had full control of the scene, the bodies at the scene, and the guns and ammunitions at the scene...

[scipio_usmc]

Lets take the matter a step further...

After the police surgeon, Dr Craig, and PI 'Bob' Miller arrived in time to pronounce Sheila as being on the far side of the bed, with what appears to be a solitary bullet wound to her neck, along comes DS 'Stan' Jones, and  DC Clarke to the scene, and they both visit the main bedroom and view Sheila's body on the bed, with a bullet wound to her neck. DCI 'Taff' Jones, sends DS 'Stan' Jones, along with DC Clarke, to take a witness statement from Jeremy at his cottage in Goldhanger...

Well, well, well...

No sooner do Jones and Clarke arrive at Jeremys cottage, than one or other of them, or both of them, are telling Ann Eaton and the others that Sheila has shot and killed the others, and that she has taken her own life by way of a single shot to the neck...

Ann Eaton, states that she cannot remember which police officer told her that Sheila's body and the body of June Bamber were on the bed together, one at the side of the other, with the rifle on the bed between both bodies...

Hang on, Ann...

I can help you out there, since there were only two police officers at Jeremys cottage on the morning of the shootings, er, DS 'Stan' Jones, and er, DC Clarke...

Er, Ann, can you remember now?

I have seen ZERO evidence that DC Clarke saw the bodies at all.  No one else records him being around when they looked at the bodies and no one has been able to produce his statements.  DS Jones states he saw her body on the floor not bed. 

During the Couple investigation Ann Eaton stated she was under the impression that June and Heila's bodies were found on the bed but doesn't remember who told her such she THOUGHT it MIGHT be Clarke but was not positive.

All accounts of the police who initially found the bodies are the same- 5 men of the raid team entered the bedroom and saw Sheila on the floor and 2 Inspectors went in right after and saw likewise.  The pool of blood by her head shows she bled there until she stopped bleeding. 

The claims are are not evidence based of any bodies being in bed when found aside from the twins and barely even would qualify as anecdotal. 

[scipio_usmc]

The police surgeon, Dr Craig, has never said that Sheila had been dead several hours prior to him pronouncing her as being dead. It was the pathologist who said that and he performed the autopsy at around 3.30pm on the afternoon of 7th August 1985.The police surgeon states that he did not carry out a thorough examination of the condition of Sheila's body at the scene when he pronounced her as being dead, because he said there was no need to in the circumstances reported to him by the police and the presence of the solitary shot to the neck, minus any blood trail - it becomes apparent, therefore, that the bullet wound the police surgeon was talking about was the lower non fatal wound with hardly any blood at all running, pouring or leaking from it, which caused Craig to falsely assume that Sheila was dead at that time, when she was not...

One of Ian Craig's statments:
"On the other side of the bedroom and hidden from view from the door by the bed was the body of a young woman lying on her back, wearing a nightdress. There was what I took to be a .22 rifle lying across her body with the muzzle pointing upward towards her head and the right 1 hand lying loosely over the butt. There was a quantity of dried blood which had come apparently from her mouth and there was what appeared to be an entry wound in the throat. I certified death at 8:44am."

In others he stated he did not do an intensive search of the bodies for wounds because it was not necessary in order to declare them dead.  So he never looked under her chin for a wound.

Bad enough you keep trying to pretend he did an exhaustive search of her body but you seem to be digging your hole even deeper.  Without any evidence at all you are claiming a doctor declared her dead when she wasn't and that the coroner was wrong about both shots being fired within seconds suggesting instead that they were delivered a long time apart.

Not only do you have no evidence at all to support your claims you ignore things like if true she would have bled out from the first wound and there would have been substantially more blood because a blood vessel had been severed and she was hemmoraging.

When one thing is disproved you just make up something else, debating you has turned into whack a mole.

[Steve_uk]

Is anyone still going with the theory that Sheila was in the kitchen and proceeded upstairs whilst the Police were in the building..

[Alias]

Is anyone still going with the theory that Sheila was in the kitchen and proceeded upstairs whilst the Police were in the building..

I have never been able to make that fit with the blood on her nightgown, so you can exclude me!

[Caroline]

Is anyone still going with the theory that Sheila was in the kitchen and proceeded upstairs whilst the Police were in the building..

Not me.

[Steve_uk]

Craig noted only 1 bullet wound to each body.  He didn't inspect the bodies carefully to count every wound.  His job was to see if they were dead and give the apaprent cause of death to  those on the scene so they woudl know what to look for.  He determined they were all dead and noted 1 wound to each body to say the apparent cause of death was gun shot wound.

If she only received the first wound she wound have eventually died from bleeding out.  But that didn't happen because the second shot was delivered within seconds of the first shot. The second shot fired well after the first would not have bled in the manner it did and there would have been substantially more blood from the first wound.   

You are not following the evidence.  You are desperately trying to come up with a way for Jeremy to be innocent simply.

There is no evidence she wa son the bed ever.  Moreover, Miller said, "APPEARS to be" he did npt look at her well.  Other officers took a closer look than he did.  Dr Craig only noted 1 would on each victim fo rth ereason I cited he didn't say there was only 1 wound on each victim though. He noted a wound on each that could have been fatal to suggest their apparent cause of death was gun-shot wound.   

When you say " 1 bullet hole to each body" which bodies are you talking about?

[mike tesko]

One version of the police surgeon, Dr Craig's witness statement, "body on the far side of the bed, with what appeared to be a solitary wound to the neck"...

[maggie]

Is anyone still going with the theory that Sheila was in the kitchen and proceeded upstairs whilst the Police were in the building..

Find it almost impossible to believe Sheila could have made it upstairs after the first shot.  I accept she may have regained consciousness and had the ability to move around but believe she would be far too traumatised to be able to do more than stagger a short way, cannot see her able to climb stairs or function in any organised way.
Alsi agree the blood trails do not show any sign she was ever standing after first shot.

[mike tesko]

One version of the police surgeon, Dr Craig's witness statement, "body on the far side of the bed, with what appeared to be a solitary wound to the neck"...

'Bob' Miller, who accompanied the police surgeon around the scene, and was present when Craig viewed Sheila's body, states, "body on far side of the bed, with what appears to be a solitary bullet wound to the neck"...

Where is PI 'Bob' Millers statement saying that he saw Sheila's body on the bedroom floor?

[scipio_usmc]

When you say " 1 bullet hole to each body" which bodies are you talking about?

All 5.  In his initial statement made on 8/7/85 he noted that each victim was dead and noted what appeared to be an entry wound to each body.  He didn't look over their bodies for more he noted the most obvious wound that looked like it could be a fatal entrance wound to be able to confirm they were probably killed by gun shot.

[scipio_usmc]

One version of the police surgeon, Dr Craig's witness statement, "body on the far side of the bed, with what appeared to be a solitary wound to the neck"...

"On the other side of the bedroom and hidden from view from the door by the bed was the body of a young woman lying on her back, wearing a nightdress. "