Author Topic: the shooting party in scotland.  (Read 12928 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #150 on: June 05, 2014, 07:41:PM »
 Agreed,Jansus.

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #151 on: June 05, 2014, 07:47:PM »
He won´t be listening - he´ll just repeat what he has said a gazillion times. Including the wrong dosage of Haldol he claims Sheila was on. He keeps shoving the same faulty claims down our throats till people tire of putting him right. Then he will return to the red forum to claim victory, and people there will applaud him sheepishly. ::)

I have looked at what the experts say including her own doctor.  You refuse to believe what her doctor or the experts at large say instead opting to believe what you claim is some nurse you know personally and that is supposed to trump real evidence.

This thread is about the shooting party and misrepresented tha ther fmaily stated she went shooting.  I posted the actual words though.  Then the claim was made that Colin was a witness.  I said let's see the evidenc epost his claims verbatim.  The subject was changed because no one coudl do so.

You don't have the first clue about what evidence means let alone how to present evidence.

You simply ignore evidence and pretend anything you like. 

Then you curse when you get your ass handed to you in a debate.

I flipped thw script and demonstrated how her mentla illness is unable to be used to establish she did it there is much more needed with my is Sheila guilty thread.  You all tried to change the subject because you coudl not dent the points I made.

I shredded the supposed examples supposed to prove Haldol would make her violent in 5 minutes.

The reality is that a schizophrenic being successfully treated as she was virtually never attempts to kill anyone.  That is why you and everyone else here have been unable to provide any examples of a shizophrenic being successfully treated for at least a month, who did not stop taking their medication and was not high at the time had delusions and tried/succeeeded in killing someone.

Cry all you want but you haven't found any examples to point out let alone many instances to suggest it would be probable for Sheila to have done so just based on probabilities.  That is all you rely on saying she was ill so it is probable. 

You are the one making simplistic claims not supported by any experts and ignoring all the relevant issues to come to an erroneous conclsuion that you want to come to simply to support Jeremy.

Yeah tell me again how you just want the truht I don't believe you, your posts demonstrate extreme bias in favor of Jeremy not objectivity.

 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #152 on: June 05, 2014, 08:38:PM »
He won´t be listening - he´ll just repeat what he has said a gazillion times. Including the wrong dosage of Haldol he claims Sheila was on. He keeps shoving the same faulty claims down our throats till people tire of putting him right. Then he will return to the red forum to claim victory, and people there will applaud him sheepishly. ::)
Which of course will militate against his pride in being a great reasoner? ::)

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #153 on: June 05, 2014, 08:41:PM »
Funny since you and others here are under the impression that it would make sense to suddenly go mad and become violent fo rth efirst time ever without any provocation and notice.

Eveyrone trying to defend Jeremy grossly misrepresents every aspect of this issue in order to make the simplistic claim that Sheila definitely did it because of mental illness.

The reality is that under 10 percent of Schizophrenics ever kill/atempt to kill anyone including themselves.  Virtually all of this small minority are either:

1) high/drunk at the time

2) were never diagnosed hence not under treatment

3) stopped taking their medication

I have issued a simple challenge tha tno one here is able to repsond to.

Post cases where a schizophrenic was being successfully treated, taking their medication without interruption, not high or drunk at the time and yet killed someone- either themselves or others.

If one is going to argue her illness makes it extremely likely she committed the crimes then there needs to be evidence it is extremely prevalent for such to occur with someone in her situation. 

No one can provide a single case that is comparable let alone many.

That is before event looking at the things in this case like the time of day which cautions against it.  She wa ssleeping and then just suddenly had delusions out of the blue where the whole family was the devil and wanted to kill them all while they were sleeping...

Sorry but no rational person who knows a thing about this subject buys what is being posted on this site about it. 

You also may not realize it or care but a great many people at large think that those who post here are crackpots for the ridiculous things posted.

The claims that the medical community support the claims being made here are not in the least bit true.
Her own doctor certainly doesn't support anything being claimed and many of his words are intentionally misrepresented to pretend she would have delusions that would warrant killing her family.

Worse though there is evidence that proves Sheila can't have killed herself and that there is no way this was even 1 case in a billion. 

That is addressed by other misrepresentations to try to pretend police shot her and there is some vast coverup of proportions larger than in UK history and the first time in history that blood would have been sprayed into a suppressor to plant blood to pretend it had been used.

It is easy to make up stories but when people make up stories they have no evidence to establish anything occurred and often make up stories that make no sense.

I see lots of stories being made up to try to get around evidence but never people following evidence where it leads because it leads to Jeremy and most people here don't want to accept the truth but rather to believe Jeremy is innocent no matter what it takes to pretend such.
The reality is scipio that you are talking out your arse mate. Shut your gob and listen to those of us who know from experience instead of regurgitating Wikishit all the time. You your common sense man and don't be a plonker all your life who only believes the light that filters through the cracks in your own roof.

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #154 on: June 05, 2014, 08:48:PM »
The reality is that a schizophrenic being successfully treated as she was virtually never attempts to kill anyone


well that about says it all really.A bit like when Adam said no one ever kills their children then themselves - or commits suicide with two shots.

This could have been an exception to the rule.

Do you know what that means?

Bucking the trend- A bit like you posting without childish insults.

Offline Alias

  • Editor
  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9435
  • What is in those 200 boxes?
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #155 on: June 05, 2014, 08:51:PM »
I have looked at what the experts say including her own doctor.  You refuse to believe what her doctor or the experts at large say instead opting to believe what you claim is some nurse you know personally and that is supposed to trump real evidence.
Umm, not me, I don´t know any nurse. Must have been somebody else.
This thread is about the shooting party and misrepresented tha ther fmaily stated she went shooting.  I posted the actual words though.  Then the claim was made that Colin was a witness.  I said let's see the evidenc epost his claims verbatim.  The subject was changed because no one coudl do so.

You don't have the first clue about what evidence means let alone how to present evidence.

You simply ignore evidence and pretend anything you like. 

Then you curse when you get your ass handed to you in a debate.
I cursed at you because you called me a Jeremy Bamber advocate. I am not. It was not debate, you were lumping me in with ALL here as you always do to everyone. Will you stop that!

I flipped thw script and demonstrated how her mentla illness is unable to be used to establish she did it there is much more needed with my is Sheila guilty thread.  You all tried to change the subject because you coudl not dent the points I made.

I shredded the supposed examples supposed to prove Haldol would make her violent in 5 minutes.

The reality is that a schizophrenic being successfully treated as she was virtually never attempts to kill anyone.  That is why you and everyone else here have been unable to provide any examples of a shizophrenic being successfully treated for at least a month, who did not stop taking their medication and was not high at the time had delusions and tried/succeeeded in killing someone. You keep claiming that Sheila was never violent and did not harm herself. You ignore that she scared the life out of Freddie Emami, you ignore that she attacked a meter man at WHF who locked himself in his car to protect himself, two grown men terrified of her. You ignore that she was reported to wail and scream in the middle of the night by her neighbours in London. You ignore that her kids were neglected (at best) while in her care. You ignore that she said her children were capable of raping and killing her, that they were women haters and that they were the Devil´s children. You ignore what Colin said about her condition deteriorating every time she was at WHF no matter previous progress. There are very many things you bend and twist to make them fit with what YOU want to see and claim she was being successfully treated, when she was not.

Cry all you want but you haven't found any examples to point out let alone many instances to suggest it would be probable for Sheila to have done so just based on probabilities.  That is all you rely on saying she was ill so it is probable. And what exactly are you saying? That it is probable she did not - that´s all you´re saying and claiming it is the God given truth.

You are the one making simplistic claims not supported by any experts and ignoring all the relevant issues to come to an erroneous conclsuion that you want to come to simply to support Jeremy.

Yeah tell me again how you just want the truht I don't believe you, your posts demonstrate extreme bias in favor of Jeremy not objectivity.
I am very objective. You don´t read my posts, you prove that time and time again - see above. I never wrote about any nurse, I have never been an advocate for JB, I don´t know whether he committed the murders or not, I have said so from day one and still say it.
 


Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #156 on: June 05, 2014, 08:52:PM »
A question why did Robert Boutflour testify that the police collected two rifles and two silencers from himself and another member of the family and take them to the trial in 1986  where they came back with exhibit numbers

Just curious as I have never been able to find the answer?

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #157 on: June 05, 2014, 08:54:PM »
 When Sheila told Doctor Ferguson that she could kill the children,,and commit suicide,,she was WELL medicated at the time because she was in hospital and being monitored !

Imagine what her mood was like WITHOUT medication ?

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #158 on: June 05, 2014, 09:43:PM »
The reality is scipio that you are talking out your arse mate. Shut your gob and listen to those of us who know from experience instead of regurgitating Wikishit all the time. You your common sense man and don't be a plonker all your life who only believes the light that filters through the cracks in your own roof.

The only thing you have demonstrated to me that you know is how to ignore facts and evidence and make up nonsense. 

So far I have seen false claims about police saying there was no gun on SHeila when her body was first found, false claims about relatives turning in multiple suppressors, false claims about relatives stating Sheila went shooting...

You are the one talking out of your arse because you refuse to accept Jeremy cna be guilty and thus assume all evidence was faked despite no evidence at all to establish it and Jeremy's various claims making no sense at all.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #159 on: June 05, 2014, 09:46:PM »
The reality is that a schizophrenic being successfully treated as she was virtually never attempts to kill anyone


well that about says it all really.A bit like when Adam said no one ever kills their children then themselves - or commits suicide with two shots.

This could have been an exception to the rule.

Do you know what that means?

Bucking the trend- A bit like you posting without childish insults.

If it is not the rule but a perceived exception to the truel then it is nonsense to say it was likely just because it could be the exception to the rule.

The burden is on those alleging it happened to prove it is the exception to the rule.

Instead people like alias are PRETENDING the rule is murder suicide of this nature and trying to use that falsehood as evidence it likely happened just because it is the rule.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #160 on: June 05, 2014, 09:55:PM »
The only thing you have demonstrated to me that you know is how to ignore facts and evidence and make up nonsense. 

So far I have seen false claims about police saying there was no gun on SHeila when her body was first found, false claims about relatives turning in multiple suppressors, false claims about relatives stating Sheila went shooting...

You are the one talking out of your arse because you refuse to accept Jeremy cna be guilty and thus assume all evidence was faked despite no evidence at all to establish it and Jeremy's various claims making no sense at all.
What's all that irrelevent shit got to do with your lack of knowledge about schizophrenia. Listen and learn from the experts lad.

Offline grahameb

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 11830
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #161 on: June 05, 2014, 09:57:PM »
I have looked at what the experts say including her own doctor.  You refuse to believe what her doctor or the experts at large say instead opting to believe what you claim is some nurse you know personally and that is supposed to trump real evidence.

This thread is about the shooting party and misrepresented tha ther fmaily stated she went shooting.  I posted the actual words though.  Then the claim was made that Colin was a witness.  I said let's see the evidenc epost his claims verbatim.  The subject was changed because no one coudl do so.

You don't have the first clue about what evidence means let alone how to present evidence.

You simply ignore evidence and pretend anything you like. 

Then you curse when you get your ass handed to you in a debate.

I flipped thw script and demonstrated how her mentla illness is unable to be used to establish she did it there is much more needed with my is Sheila guilty thread.  You all tried to change the subject because you coudl not dent the points I made.

I shredded the supposed examples supposed to prove Haldol would make her violent in 5 minutes.

The reality is that a schizophrenic being successfully treated as she was virtually never attempts to kill anyone.  That is why you and everyone else here have been unable to provide any examples of a shizophrenic being successfully treated for at least a month, who did not stop taking their medication and was not high at the time had delusions and tried/succeeeded in killing someone.

Cry all you want but you haven't found any examples to point out let alone many instances to suggest it would be probable for Sheila to have done so just based on probabilities.  That is all you rely on saying she was ill so it is probable. 

You are the one making simplistic claims not supported by any experts and ignoring all the relevant issues to come to an erroneous conclsuion that you want to come to simply to support Jeremy.

Yeah tell me again how you just want the truht I don't believe you, your posts demonstrate extreme bias in favor of Jeremy not objectivity.

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8eS1GEwjjo

Offline lookout

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 48676
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #162 on: June 05, 2014, 10:03:PM »
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Jan

  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10318
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #163 on: June 05, 2014, 10:24:PM »
If it is not the rule but a perceived exception to the truel then it is nonsense to say it was likely just because it could be the exception to the rule.

The burden is on those alleging it happened to prove it is the exception to the rule.

Instead people like alias are PRETENDING the rule is murder suicide of this nature and trying to use that falsehood as evidence it likely happened just because it is the rule.

I did not say that - twisting words as ususal

Offline scipio_usmc

  • Veteran Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9502
Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #164 on: June 05, 2014, 10:32:PM »
You keep claiming that Sheila was never violent and did not harm herself. You ignore that she scared the life out of Freddie Emami,

What did she do to him?  Did she physically attack him?  nope Moreover, when did this supposedly happen?  While she was off her medication and taking drugs.


you ignore that she attacked a meter man at WHF who locked himself in his car to protect himself, two grown men terrified of her.

Did she physically attack him?  When did it happen?  Was this while she was on her Haldol and what evidence is there to estbalish this event and the full circumstances?

Peopl being terrified because they don't know what to do doesn't mean crap, the question is whether she physically attacked anyone and if so under what conditions and what precipitated it.

You are ignoring:

1) that while medicated successfully there are very few instances of violence and that with SHeila as others it is when they are off their meds or on drugs when problems result

2) even when off ther meds and on drugs things still set them off.  They don't just go looking to hurt people in their beds

3) that murder suicides are caused by something different than just plain murder or plain suicide

4) that there is evidence that proves beyond question that Sheila didn't kill herself because someone else moved her body very shortly after she died and put th esuppressor away


You ignore that she was reported to wail and scream in the middle of the night by her neighbours in London. You ignore that her kids were neglected (at best) while in her care.

What does this have to do with whether she would kill anyone?  If anythign the fact she neglected her kids makes it even less likely she would kill if someone suggested they be part time foster cared.   


You ignore that she said her children were capable of raping and killing her, that they were women haters and that they were the Devil´s children.

You ignore that she said these things before she was treated successfully in 1983 and that after such treatment she said no such thing ever again.  During her second stay she didn't even tlak about her family at all. You also ignore her doctor said even then he didn't feel she was capable of harming them or herself and felt even more strongly she was not at risk to hurt them or herself in 1985. WHo is in the best position to evaluate he rmental condition the doctor treating her or someone who didn't even meet her ever?


You ignore what Colin said about her condition deteriorating every time she was at WHF no matter previous progress. There are very many things you bend and twist to make them fit with what YOU want to see and claim she was being successfully treated, when she was not.

The one twisting is you. Colin said that after her second stay in the hospital her relationship improved with her mother because SHeila found religion and was able to bond with her mother over religion.  The reason she PREVIOUSLY hated being at WHF was allegedly because of her mother preached to her about sin.  In th emeantime why did she relaspse away form WHF?  Because while away from WHF she stopped taking her medication and was using narcotics.

The one ignoring the facts is you not me I considered everything together while you twist to look at outdated information and ignore the reasons for her past relapses to suit the agenda you insist you don't have but quite obviously do.


 And what exactly are you saying? That it is probable she did not - that´s all you´re saying and claiming it is the God given truth.

I am fully accurate that it is not probable based on her mental condition alone that she would kill anyone including herself.  Since it is not probable tha tmeans it is wrong for peopel to try to use just her mental condition alone as evidence that she likely did it.

But I discussed far more including the evidence that proves she didn't kill herself and was framed.

I considered everything from top to bottom about her CURRENT situation.

You didn't, you dragged out things she said prior to treatment instead of the most recent treatment where she didn't talk about her kids or family at all. You tossed out her relapses caused by not taking her medication and taking narcotics (while failing to take into account that was the reason for the relapses) and even about how she hated being preached to when she went to WHF IN THE PAST but most recently didn't mind because she became religious and bonded with June over it. 

I took into account everything while you cherry picked to try sto support the agenda you insist you don't have.



 I am very objective. You don´t read my posts, you prove that time and time again - see above. I never wrote about any nurse, I have never been an advocate for JB, I don´t know whether he committed the murders or not, I have said so from day one and still say it.

I read your posts and can see right through your bogus claims of objectivity.  I just demonstrated here and now how you ignore any evidence that cuts against what you want to pretend happened even if it means ignoring the most recent evidence and running with statements from Sheila before she was treated.

You also ignore evidence that proves she can't have killed herself.  That evidence and anything else is explained away as a grand conspiracy against Jeremy without an ounce of proof to establish the claim.

Nor is it ever explain how Nevill would have the opportunity to make a call let alone how and the entire timing of this overnight is never taken into account.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry