Author Topic: the shooting party in scotland.  (Read 12926 times)

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Offline nugnug

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #60 on: May 31, 2014, 02:09:PM »
well theirs no way they could of all not remembered weather she was there not colin cadfeal clearly remembers.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #61 on: May 31, 2014, 02:12:PM »
if colin says she went then she went hes got no reason to lie.

1) Colin saying she went away and left him with the kids doens't establish where she went.  he could have been wrong about wehre she went

2) Even if she did go to Scotmand that doesn't establish she actually went to the shooting competetion let alone actually fired a gun there.  Colin wa snot there so can't possibly know what happened.

That deson't prove she definitely went, let alone that DB lied by saying he doesn't recall her going and that if she did go she didn't carry a gun and he doesn't recall her firing a weapon if she did go.

The most Colin could testify to is that he recalls her going awayaround 1978 or 79 and he thinks she went with DB to Scotland.

In constrast i have proved you and others were wrong abou what DB testified to.  The next question is did you lie or were you just ignorant?  I can't prove which is the case though I have my suspicions...  Eithe rwya it doesn't reflect well on you. 
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2014, 02:15:PM »
well theirs no way they could of all not remembered weather she was there not colin cadfeal clearly remembers.

Caffell could be wrong.  If I use your logic then you all lied about DB's testimony.  I accurately described his testimony 3 times and you still insisted he said Sheila went on a shooting holiday.  I posted the actually testimony proving my characterization was correct.  using your logic you could not have been wrong you had to have intentionally lied. 
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Offline nugnug

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #63 on: May 31, 2014, 02:17:PM »
they couldent all of not remembered its not credible.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #64 on: May 31, 2014, 02:19:PM »
they couldent all of not remembered its not credible.

Colin could be the one who is misremembering and could be wrong. 

In contrast I actually proved your characterization of DB's testimony wrong. 

Once again by your logic it is impossible for all of you to have gotten it wrong so you all lied.
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Offline nugnug

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #65 on: May 31, 2014, 02:24:PM »
colin could give a definite answer all those years later nobody else could.

so your saying he imagened all thse trips he went on with his wife.

Offline lookout

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #66 on: May 31, 2014, 02:26:PM »
Colin could be the one who is misremembering and could be wrong. 

In contrast I actually proved your characterization of DB's testimony wrong. 

Once again by your logic it is impossible for all of you to have gotten it wrong so you all lied.





How can we lie about something we know nothing about ? This is a debate not a coroners inquest. !

Offline nugnug

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #67 on: May 31, 2014, 02:35:PM »
db saying shiela  couldent shoot a gun.

then saying he cant rember wether she had fired a gun or not cant be called anything other than a lie .

both of those statements cant be true.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #68 on: May 31, 2014, 02:40:PM »
colin could give a definite answer all those years later nobody else could.

so your saying he imagened all thse trips he went on with his wife.

All what trips?  He said he believes she went on a shooting trip not trips plural.  He recalls her going away. He coudl be wrong about where she went.

You misrepresented DB's testimony.

Was it because you never read it and had a wreckless disregard for the truth?  Because you read it but forgot what it actually said and made a genuined mistake?  Never read it and simply chose to believe what someone else wrote about it and thus didn't bother to try to make sure what the truth was? You remembered but just decided to lie?

If we use your logic it is definitely the last one and there is no question of that .  But a search for the truth it is not so simple as to just declare everything a lie for sure.  The other possiiblities have to be proven impossible first. 

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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #69 on: May 31, 2014, 02:42:PM »
db saying shiela  couldent shoot a gun.

then saying he cant rember wether she had fired a gun or not cant be called anything other than a lie .

both of those statements cant be true.

DB said he had no recollection of her firing a gun ever and he maintained that to the end.  He did not waver and say he suddenly recalled her shooting a gun.

Jeremy-apologists insisted he admited she went to a shooting holiday and fired a gun but he didn't.  The question again is were you ignorant and wrong or were you intentionally misrepresenting?
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Offline nugnug

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #70 on: May 31, 2014, 02:51:PM »
All what trips?  He said he believes she went on a shooting trip not trips plural.  He recalls her going away. He coudl be wrong about where she went.

You misrepresented DB's testimony.

Was it because you never read it and had a wreckless disregard for the truth?  Because you read it but forgot what it actually said and made a genuined mistake?  Never read it and simply chose to believe what someone else wrote about it and thus didn't bother to try to make sure what the truth was? You remembered but just decided to lie?

If we use your logic it is definitely the last one and there is no question of that .  But a search for the truth it is not so simple as to just declare everything a lie for sure.  The other possiiblities have to be proven impossible first.

so your saying collins deluisional

the he imagend being a beater on a trip and he imagends hes wife being there with him

Offline Jane

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #71 on: May 31, 2014, 02:51:PM »
DB said he had no recollection of her firing a gun ever and he maintained that to the end.  He did not waver and say he suddenly recalled her shooting a gun.

Jeremy-apologists insisted he admited she went to a shooting holiday and fired a gun but he didn't.  The question again is were you ignorant and wrong or were you intentionally misrepresenting?



To use the word "ever" implies that he was with her on every occasion in which guns were involved. All he can TRUTHFULLY say is that on the occasions he was in her company he does not recall seeing her use a gun, which is very different from "ever".

As you so correctly pointed out in a previous post, if Colin wasn't there he couldn't possibly know what she did. May I suggest that the same applies to us. You frequently relay things to us which COULD cause us to believe that you were.

Offline nugnug

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2014, 03:03:PM »
if he wasnt there but its big if considering hes stated defiantly that he was.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #73 on: May 31, 2014, 03:36:PM »


To use the word "ever" implies that he was with her on every occasion in which guns were involved. All he can TRUTHFULLY say is that on the occasions he was in her company he does not recall seeing her use a gun, which is very different from "ever".

As you so correctly pointed out in a previous post, if Colin wasn't there he couldn't possibly know what she did. May I suggest that the same applies to us. You frequently relay things to us which COULD cause us to believe that you were.

Nope I wasn't there but I evaluate what hapepned based on available evidence.  Contrary to the claims of Jeremy-apologists no one has come forward saying they aw her fire a weapon let alone a claim tha tis credible. 

Post the statement of someone who says they personally saw Sheila fire a gun ever.

The only such claims were verbally made by Jeremy himself the night of the murders when he told police Sheila had fired all weapons in the house.

He recanted that though in his written statement and even went so far as to deny ever saying such suggesting police who claimed he said such were liers.

Post verbatim a witness statement of someone who saw her shoot a gun ever aside from this recanted claim:


"The appellant told the police that Sheila Caffell could use a gun. He said they had gone target shooting together and she had used all the guns in the house before. In the light of what they were told the uniformed officers requested armed assistance before any attempt to search the house was made. The appellant dictated a list of the firearms kept at the house. He told the police that he had loaded the .22 automatic rifle the previous night because he thought he had heard rabbits outside. He said he had left the gun on the kitchen table with a full magazine and a box of ammunition nearby"

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Offline nugnug

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Re: the shooting party in scotland.
« Reply #74 on: May 31, 2014, 03:53:PM »
funny her husband dident say she was uncoordinated and and couldn't use a gun.

and that when she was first accused of the murders he went along with it.

in fact nobody who dident have a vested interested in jeremys conviction mentions her not being able to use a gun.

the relatives said more than they had never seen they said she was uncoordinated and couldn't shoot.