Is Sheila guilty?

[nugnug]

I certainly don't remember reading of any fingerprints around the windows,,yet the transom window and another were open,,so why bother with a hacksaw blade ?

if a window had been hacksawed open there would of been no need for the raid team to get in the way they did.

[maggie]

I was answering Numugs post.

Of course it was proved. The police would have tested the kitchen window for themselves.

Adam Essex Police Review

22/8/85 'first opportunity to go to WHF.  Examined all windows. Most are sash type and could be opened from outside but could not be closed' ......  Barlow
The police withheld information until Jeremy was convicted that the windows could not be locked from the outside.  Jeremy Bamber always admitted the windows could be opened from the outside, including the lounge windows but they could not be locked from the outside.

[nugnug]

so theres no way he could of got out and closed the window.

[lookout]

 You can open those old sash windows from the outside by sliding a penknife underneath the centre slide-catch and shifting the lever to one-side,,but unless the windows were counter-balanced and maintained,,could drop down with an almighty bang. Sometimes a book was needed to keep them open if you wanted air in the place,though chances are, they may have remained closed especially if the sash- cords were painted over.

[nugnug]

but its not just opening them its closing them and locking them behind you.

[maggie]

I certainly don't remember reading of any fingerprints around the windows,,yet the transom window and another were open,,so why bother with a hacksaw blade ?

Think they were opened by the police during the day, lookout. Taff Jones checked the windows at 9.15 and found all windows including bathroom and kitchen window secure only dairy/transom window was open.

[scipio_usmc]

Adam Essex Police Review

22/8/85 'first opportunity to go to WHF.  Examined all windows. Most are sash type and could be opened from outside but could not be closed' ......  Barlow
The police withheld information until Jeremy was convicted that the windows could not be locked from the outside.  Jeremy Bamber always admitted the windows could be opened from the outside, including the lounge windows but they could not be locked from the outside.

Jeremy knew how to make at least one of the windows lock upon leaving and one window wa snot secure anyway according to police.

Had Jeremy not pretended he received a call form Nevill and not tried so hard to finger is sister and instead did a passive frame job feigning complete ignorance then when the frame fell it he could disclaim all knowledge and say it could have been anyone who killed them.  Whiel he woudl have been suspected the evidence to convict him would have been lacking save Julie coming forward and the jury believing her over him.

Knowing about the murders and trying so hard to blame her is what established he is the one who did it as opposed to someone else.

That was his giant error.

[lookout]

but its not just opening them its closing them and locking them behind you.

Doesn't work with sash windows,nugs.

[maggie]

Jeremy knew how to make at least one of the windows lock upon leaving and one window wa snot secure anyway according to police.

Had Jeremy not pretended he received a call form Nevill and not tried so hard to finger is sister and instead did a passive frame job feigning complete ignorance then when the frame fell it he could disclaim all knowledge and say it could have been anyone who killed them.  Whiel he woudl have been suspected the evidence to convict him would have been lacking save Julie coming forward and the jury believing her over him.

Knowing about the murders and trying so hard to blame her is what established he is the one who did it as opposed to someone else.

That was his giant error.

No The police did not ever find a window that would lock from outside, they just allowed that to be believed until after Jeremy was convicted.  The police then admitted there was no way of securing the window from the outside during their review of the investigation.

[nugnug]

so all doors bolted no window that can be opend from the outside the logical conclusion has to be no outside intruder.

[lookout]

 Exactly. Purely an inside job.

[scipio_usmc]

but its not just opening them its closing them and locking them behind you.

"Later the appellant said he had decided to shoot his family and he told her that he had discovered that the catch on the kitchen window did not work and he could gain access to the house in that way. The appellant said he planned to leave the address by a different window, which latched when it was shut from the outside. He spoke of Sheila Caffell being a good scapegoat because of her admission to hospital during Easter 1985 and said that afterwards he would make it seem as if Sheila had done it and then killed herself."

"The appellant returned the moderator to the gun cupboard and before leaving the address called his home at Goldhanger, leaving the receiver off the hook, thus lending support to the alibi he would later rely upon. He then left the premises, one available route being to climb out of the kitchen window, banging it from the outside to drop the catch back into position and then cycled home."

These quotes are from the 2002 appellate decision.  The police investigated the kitchen window in response to the following claim which also is quoted in said appeal decision:


"It is also of significance that he recorded on 20 August 1985:

"They (Robert Boulflour and Ann Eaton) thought the windows could be locked from outside the premises making particular reference to the window behind the bushes by the Geese pond facing towards the tennis court".
This would appear to be the kitchen window and provides the explanation for DC Barlow's examination of the kitchen window."

Barlow went and examined the Kitchen weindow in response to their claim and it was determined the catch could be closed from the outside. Hence the prosecution argued at trial that is how Jeremy left the house.

[Patti]

"Later the appellant said he had decided to shoot his family and he told her that he had discovered that the catch on the kitchen window did not work and he could gain access to the house in that way. The appellant said he planned to leave the address by a different window, which latched when it was shut from the outside. He spoke of Sheila Caffell being a good scapegoat because of her admission to hospital during Easter 1985 and said that afterwards he would make it seem as if Sheila had done it and then killed herself."

"The appellant returned the moderator to the gun cupboard and before leaving the address called his home at Goldhanger, leaving the receiver off the hook, thus lending support to the alibi he would later rely upon. He then left the premises, one available route being to climb out of the kitchen window, banging it from the outside to drop the catch back into position and then cycled home."

These quotes are from the 2002 appellate decision.  The police investigated the kitchen window in response to the following claim which also is quoted in said appeal decision:


"It is also of significance that he recorded on 20 August 1985:

"They (Robert Boulflour and Ann Eaton) thought the windows could be locked from outside the premises making particular reference to the window behind the bushes by the Geese pond facing towards the tennis court".
This would appear to be the kitchen window and provides the explanation for DC Barlow's examination of the kitchen window."

Barlow went and examined the Kitchen weindow in response to their claim and it was determined the catch could be closed from the outside. Hence the prosecution argued at trial that is how Jeremy left the house.

NOTW 1986

"Jeremy never admitted to me that he had killed his family" I can't work that one out?

[scipio_usmc]

No The police did not ever find a window that would lock from outside, they just allowed that to be believed until after Jeremy was convicted.  The police then admitted there was no way of securing the window from the outside during their review of the investigation.

Yes they did. They found out that the kitchen window could be closed from the outside.  The 2002 appellate decision explains how they discovered it and that as a result police testifed at trial it was possible to close the catch from the outside and the prosecution maintained that is how Jeremy left.

Relatives explained such was possible wiht the kitchen window, the police examined said window and discovered the family was correct and this was testified to at trial.

On appeal the defense argued aong other things that the prosecution had no basis to assert eremy entered through the bathroom or exited through the kitchen.

The Appellate court pointed out that the the prosecution established at trial the bathroom sills had been freshly painted and the paint was scratched as if a knife or other object had been used to open the latch and this was the basis of suggesting the bathroom as an entry location.  Moreover, the police testified how after being told by the family about the kitchen window being able to be locked from the outside they examined it and found that to be the case and that was the basis of arguing the kitchen was the exit point.

There is no need to even go through the original trial testimony the appellate decision summarizes most claims and evidence made by the parties at trial.

[scipio_usmc]

NOTW 1986

"Jeremy never admitted to me that he had killed his family" I can't work that one out?

If you mean why he told Julie he hired a hitman as opposed to admitting he perosnally did the killings he didn't want her to know he was so cold blooded he could kill children even.