Is Sheila guilty?

[Patti]

If you mean why he told Julie he hired a hitman as opposed to admitting he perosnally did the killings he didn't want her to know he was so cold blooded he could kill children even.

No Scorpio I don't mean that. What I meat was JM told the police of his plans to kill his parents yet she told the NOTW that he never admitted to killing his parents to her.  Then he tells her MM did it. When she asked him if he had done it he said of course not I couldn't do it.   

[lookout]

 That's just it,,everyone had surmised that he'd killed his family simply by him allegedly saying that he " could kill his family "as told by RWB and JM.

[Patti]

That's just it,,everyone had surmised that he'd killed his family simply by him allegedly saying that he " could kill his family "as told by RWB and JM.

Jeremy had a wide range of friends why didn't he say this to them?

[nugnug]

Exactly. Purely an inside job.

well thats the only thing i can conclude seeing as all the doors were bolted and the windows were locked.

[Jan]

well I just read the 2002 appeal - and it does not say to me that the police proved the window could be locked from the outside.

We all know JB went in and out of the of the window but the word of the relatives to me is not enough proof any of the window could be locked  form the outside.

I will read it again tomorrow Scipio - so no need to lecture me - but I just can not see what you said

286. The prosecution had established conclusively and without challenge the appellant's ability to enter and leave the White House Farm when it was apparently secure from his own answers. Julie Mugford confirmed the fact. The Crown did not have the burden of proving by which window and by which mechanism the entry was made. The Crown proved capacity both to enter and leave. There was no issue. As the trial Judge said (at page 10E):

"… how he got there and out again whether by the kitchen window or any other means, though of interest, cannot affect the outcome of the case"

[nugnug]

but we have the latter review wich Maggie posted that said they couldn't be locked from the outside.

[maggie]

well I just read the 2002 appeal - and it does not say to me that the police proved the window could be locked from the outside.

We all know JB went in and out of the of the window but the word of the relatives to me is not enough proof any of the window could be locked  form the outside.

I will read it again tomorrow Scipio - so no need to lecture me - but I just can not see what you said

286. The prosecution had established conclusively and without challenge the appellant's ability to enter and leave the White House Farm when it was apparently secure from his own answers. Julie Mugford confirmed the fact. The Crown did not have the burden of proving by which window and by which mechanism the entry was made. The Crown proved capacity both to enter and leave. There was no issue. As the trial Judge said (at page 10E):

"… how he got there and out again whether by the kitchen window or any other means, though of interest, cannot affect the outcome of the case"

Exactly jansus, as far as I can see DC Barlow stated that the windows could not be locked.  We know AE and RB claimed the windows could be opened and locked, Jeremy Bamber admitted most windows could be opened from the outside  but not locked and I accept he may not have been telling the truth but as far as I can see it was never proven but was stated by the judge that it didn't have to be proven how he could enter and leave just that there was a possibility that he may have been able to. 

[Patti]

Please don't get me started on the windows lol

In order to prove Jeremy committed the murder one had to prove he entered the house.

It was the crowns case that he entered the windows for the purpose of killing his family.

Maggie you can take it from here.....

[maggie]

Please don't get me started on the windows lol

In order to prove Jeremy committed the murder one had to prove he entered the house.

It was the crowns case that he entered the windows for the purpose of killing his family.

Maggie you can take it from here.....

I will take it tomorrow thank you Patti  antibiotics are getting the better of me.  Night all. xxx

[scipio_usmc]

well I just read the 2002 appeal - and it does not say to me that the police proved the window could be locked from the outside.

We all know JB went in and out of the of the window but the word of the relatives to me is not enough proof any of the window could be locked  form the outside.

I will read it again tomorrow Scipio - so no need to lecture me - but I just can not see what you said

286. The prosecution had established conclusively and without challenge the appellant's ability to enter and leave the White House Farm when it was apparently secure from his own answers. Julie Mugford confirmed the fact. The Crown did not have the burden of proving by which window and by which mechanism the entry was made. The Crown proved capacity both to enter and leave. There was no issue. As the trial Judge said (at page 10E):

"… how he got there and out again whether by the kitchen window or any other means, though of interest, cannot affect the outcome of the case"

You forgot the next part:

"The only way in which the window evidence could have been of importance in the jury's decision is if despite other evidence pointing to the appellant as the killer, they might have been prevented from reaching that conclusion by doubting that he could have got in and out on the night in question with the windows being found next day in the condition in which they were found. On the appellant's own admissions, no such doubt could arise."

What admissions?  He admitted to entering the house through the windows including the very window in question- the bathroom while on bail and the windows and doors were found locked up after he allegedly did this so if his claim is true it means he had a way to leave and lock the window behind him.   

Hence why the court said there could be no doubt about the fact he knew how to enter and leave with the house being fully locked up before and after.

He might have had another means to do so than the kitchen like out the dairy window or climbing from the second floor who knows but he established he is capable of leaving and the place remaining all locked up by saying he entered and left and the house was found fully locked up after it supposedly occurred.  He thus screwed himself royally. He thought he was so smart that he would spoil their evidence by climbing through windows after they told him he used said windows. Instead he proved he is a dumbass by demonstrating he was able to get in and out without the place being insecure afterwards.

Forget Julie, he was his own worst enemy.

[Patti]

8th DC Jones examines the ground floor windows. All appear to closed and fastened. With the exception of the living room which was opened by the raid team and the small window in the kitchen which was also opened due to smell and flies.

8th and 9th August forensic team do an extensive examination of all ground floor windows. Nothing was found.

22nd August the windows where examined again. Nothing found.

28th September Cook attends WHF takes a scratched catch from the ground floor bathroom window exhibit RCW/8

1st October Elliot and his team again for the 3rd time do another examination of the ground floor windows. Elliot claims to have identified a catch on the ground floor bathroom window as being scratched.

How Elllot saw this catch let alone take it I haven't got a clue, because Cook took the catch on the 28th...

Note: 2 examinations of the ground floor nothing found.

16th September Jeremy admits to having got in through the said window.

After this date and only after this date did they find the said scratched catch.

If anyone can work this out they are a good one. 

[Patti]

I will take it tomorrow thank you Patti  antibiotics are getting the better of me.  Night all. xxx

Aww Night Maggie xxxx

[nugnug]

the windows are the key if they couldent of been locked from the outside then the killer couldent be anyone else but sheila.

[Patti]

the windows are the key if they couldent of been locked from the outside then the killer couldent be anyone else but sheila.

If memory serves me right Nugs he also left a note that night asking BW to lock the window.

He was a fool to have done this at this point, had he not done then the 3rd examination of the windows would have resulted in nothing found like the two examinations before.   

[scipio_usmc]

That's just it,,everyone had surmised that he'd killed his family simply by him allegedly saying that he " could kill his family "as told by RWB and JM.

Hardly.  There is irrefutable evidence that Sheila can't have killed herself and then put the suppressor away and can't have killed herself while sitting then moved herself flat. Dead people can't move.

Jeremy is the one who pushed the SHeila did it claim and everything he said and did clearly was ot frame her.  Much of it is obvious lies and that is what establishes he did it.  Julie's claims is just icing on the cake.