Is Sheila guilty?

[scipio_usmc]

She could have been prosecuted for perverting the course of justice though .
Because according to her own statements she knew he had done it on the night of the murders and as she was alone with the police on the day of the ID she had ample opportunity to tell them  then, without fear and they would have taken her into protection.

As she did not (In theory if he is guilty) she gave him every opportunity to destroy any evidence .

Therefore Perverting the cause of justice - which could have resulted in prison.

There was no legal duty to rat out others.  On the other hand she could not lie about what he told her legally during the 2 calls in question that she described.  She says she didn't lie she just didn' tell everything she knew.

Since she subsequently told them what she knew and testified it is moot, they only prosecute when people still won't tell the truth even if it can be proven they lied as opposed to simply didn't reveal everything they knew.   Moreover evne in thos erare cases when they do prosecute it more often is because they think the person played a role in the actual crime but they can't prove it so they just get them on lying so they at least get some punishment.

[Jane]

There was no legal duty to rat out others.  On the other hand she could not lie about what he told her legally during the 2 calls in question that she described.  She says she didn't lie she just didn' tell everything she knew.

Since she subsequently told them what she knew and testified it is moot, they only prosecute when people still won't tell the truth even if it can be proven they lied as opposed to simply didn't reveal everything they knew.   Moreover evne in thos erare cases when they do prosecute it more often is because they think the person played a role in the actual crime but they can't prove it so they just get them on lying so they at least get some punishment.

Knowing  what her propensity MAY have been for "blurring the truth" it's very difficult to accept what she SAYS was said over the phone when there was unlikely to have been anyone standing beside her to hear a two way conversation.

[grahameb]

"Hypocrisy is the claim or pretense of holding beliefs, feelings, standards, qualities, opinions, behaviors, virtues, motivations, or other characteristics that one does not in actual fact hold. It is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another."

To claim one has a certain standard for assessing criminal guilt that applies to Jeremy and other accused but to apply a different standard to assess Sheila's guilt would be hypocrisy.

Yes thats about it. It comes from the Greek meaning a mask. An actors mask. The actors put on these masks or hypocrites to portray the character they were playing. The actors were not actually those characters. But were pretending to be those actors. But personally I would hesitate to challenge the various beliefs and motives of any members here though? The Muslims have a saying, "You must never call anyone a hypocrite. Only God can do that. You must say, you are acting like a hypocrite" Which basically is true. We haven't the depth of knowledge of that person to accuse them of such things.
The Grrek philosophers used to say, "Son know yourself".

[scipio_usmc]

Knowing  what her propensity MAY have been for "blurring the truth" it's very difficult to accept what she SAYS was said over the phone when there was unlikely to have been anyone standing beside her to hear a two way conversation.

She is likely to downplay her role in it not to make up the entire thing.

Jeremey had no reason to call her at all even if he had received a call from Nevill.  Someone in his place would either go investigate or call police and then go investigate.

Waking her up to say there might be trouble but he is not positive makes no sense at all.  He called so he could claim that proof Nevill called him is that he called her and told her about it.  He called around 6AM to tell her not to go to work so that she could confirm to police his story that he called her to tell her about it.  Both calls were for a contrived purpose.

So was insisting police pick him up and then because they wouldn't parking on the side of the road waiting for them to pass and then driving up later so they could see he arrived after them. 

Nothing he did was natural or what someone in his posiiton would have naturally done.

A call to Julie that he needed comfort and wanted her with him after learning his family was dead in contrast would be credible and something a person would do. 

[Jane]

She is likely to downplay her role in it not to make up the entire thing.

Jeremey had no reason to call her at all even if he had received a call from Nevill.  Someone in his place would either go investigate or call police and then go investigate.

Waking her up to say there might be trouble but he is not positive makes no sense at all.  He called so he could claim that proof Nevill called him is that he called her and told her about it.  He called around 6AM to tell her not to go to work so that she could confirm to police his story that he called her to tell her about it.  Both calls were for a contrived purpose.

So was insisting police pick him up and then because they wouldn't parking on the side of the road waiting for them to pass and then driving up later so they could see he arrived after them. 

Nothing he did was natural or what someone in his posiiton would have naturally done.

A call to Julie that he needed comfort and wanted her with him after learning his family was dead in contrast would be credible and something a person would do.

Sorry Scipio, I'm not letting you get away with that. Innocent or guilty, Jeremy ASKED the police if they would pick him up and they told him to make his own way there and in that situation I'd have made damn certain that they got there first.

[scipio_usmc]

Sorry Scipio, I'm not letting you get away with that. Innocent or guilty, Jeremy ASKED the police if they would pick him up and they told him to make his own way there and in that situation I'd have made damn certain that they got there first.

Why did he ask police to pick him up?  Because he wanted them to se ehe was home

Why did he make sure he pulled up 3 minutes after them?  So they would see he arrived after them 

Why did he do such?  So that they would think he had been home for hours as claimed and had not been to the site at all so they coudl not claim he might have been involved.

In that situation I would have gone to my parents' and AT MINIMUM looked in the windows to try to see what was going on if not tried to get inside.

I would not be too scared to even drive near their home but rather sit waiting for police ot drive by and finally go pursue them a few minutes later.  That action wwas contrived.

Eveyrthing Jeremy did was contrived and if you think I am going to let you get away with such BS then you are th eone mistaken.

[Jane]

Why did he ask police to pick him up?  Because he wanted them to se ehe was home

Why did he make sure he pulled up 3 minutes after them?  So they would see he arrived after them 

Why did he do such?  So that they would think he had been home for hours as claimed and had not been to the site at all so they coudl not claim he might have been involved.

In that situation I would have gone to my parents' and AT MINIMUM looked in the windows to try to see what was going on if not tried to get inside.

I would not be too scared to even drive near their home but rather sit waiting for police ot drive by and finally go pursue them a few minutes later.  That action wwas contrived.

Eveyrthing Jeremy did was contrived and if you think I am going to let you get away with such BS then you are th eone mistaken.

The police drove past within YARDS of his door. I don't imagine they wanted him to get there first.

Do you imagine he worked it out with a calculator HOW to arrive 3 minutes after them?

I frankly can't see how the above would make them think he'd been home for hours.

What do you think he might have done HAD he looked through the windows?

NONE of this is about what you would have done although you frequently compare yourself with Jeremy.

[Jan]

Sorry Scipio, I'm not letting you get away with that. Innocent or guilty, Jeremy ASKED the police if they would pick him up and they told him to make his own way there and in that situation I'd have made damn certain that they got there first.

I understood that the police  asked him to wait for them anyway - in other words not to go barging into  what could be a volatile situation - which considering the time they waited outside a completely silent house with no movement before going in  to save the children ( considering they did not even know if a single shot had been fired ) makes perfect sense .   

[lookout]

 Hence Jeremys' alleged calm behaviour while waiting in the police car,,as up until then,,he hadn't known what had gone on,,,until he was told,,then he broke down uncontrollably,wanting to see his father,believing he was still alive.

[scipio_usmc]

The police drove past within YARDS of his door. I don't imagine they wanted him to get there first.

Do you imagine he worked it out with a calculator HOW to arrive 3 minutes after them?

I frankly can't see how the above would make them think he'd been home for hours.

What do you think he might have done HAD he looked through the windows?

NONE of this is about what you would have done although you frequently compare yourself with Jeremy.

He watched them drive by and then instead of immediately putting the car in gear to follow he waited a while longer so that he could pull up severla minutes after them.

His supposed excuse was he was putting a sweater on.

What he was doing is patently obvious to anyone who actually looks at it objectively instead of looking at everything with Jeremy blinders on.

Everything he did was cotrived and served a purpose of trying to frame Sheila from the fake phone call that attributed the shootings to Sheila, the staging of the 30 bullets which backfired and gave away that he staged them, to claiming she fired all the guns in the house.

There is considerable evidence that he framed Sheila.  There is no evidence police of anyone else framed Jeremy.  Yet the same people who insist Jeremy was framed completely ignore all the evidence that he framed Sheila.  The irony is astounding.

 

[Jane]

He watched them drive by and then instead of immediately putting the car in gear to follow he waited a while longer so that he could pull up severla minutes after them.

His supposed excuse was he was putting a sweater on.

What he was doing is patently obvious to anyone who actually looks at it objectively instead of looking at everything with Jeremy blinders on.

Everything he did was cotrived and served a purpose of trying to frame Sheila from the fake phone call that attributed the shootings to Sheila, the staging of the 30 bullets which backfired and gave away that he staged them, to claiming she fired all the guns in the house.

There is considerable evidence that he framed Sheila.  There is no evidence police of anyone else framed Jeremy.  Yet the same people who insist Jeremy was framed completely ignore all the evidence that he framed Sheila.  The irony is astounding.

Heaven preserve me from pedants!!!!

Since when did "within YARDS" mean within sight?

As one might. England. 3.30am.

What he was doing appear patently obvious to anyone looking through your blinkered eyes.

It's possible to slant ANYTHING the way one wishes to see it.

In order to say Jeremy framed Sheila you have dismissed everything said of her as being of no moment or consequence. By contrast, that Jeremy puts on a sweater has sinister connotations.

[lookout]

I would think that most would feel the cold at having to get out of a warm bed at that hour of the morning. It was about 11 degrees and damp as it had been raining,,so would have felt on the chilly side.

I'd have been more suspicious if he'd just been in his shirt sleeves,,as that would have indicated that he was overheated through exertion !

[scipio_usmc]

The police drove past within YARDS of his door. I don't imagine they wanted him to get there first.

Do you imagine he worked it out with a calculator HOW to arrive 3 minutes after them?

I frankly can't see how the above would make them think he'd been home for hours.

What do you think he might have done HAD he looked through the windows?

NONE of this is about what you would have done although you frequently compare yourself with Jeremy.

1) it doesn't prove he was home for hours but apparently he thought the claim of recieivng the call in combination with seeing he had been home would convince them to believe him as opposed to them finding him there and thinkin ghe had been there touching things before police arrived.  It was not a great plan but one ovbiously contrived.  He would not have had difficulty pulling behind police and arriving seconds later as opposed to driving slowly to make sure they arrived several minutes before him.

This is just one example, everything he told police was calculated to frame Sheila and staged. From saying he saw her shoot all weapons in the house including the murder weapon to changing to her no seeing her fire it or any other weapon but that she saw him load the magazine so would know how to do so. Claiming he left it out also was contrived to accomplish several different goals.  The calles to Julie contrived.  Very little he did is what someone would naturally have done and what he claims Nevill did would not have come naturally either.   

2) Going there and listening from the outside and in addition looking in the windows to see if the family was in trouble and needed help is what someone would naturally do in his position.  Then either try to find a way in or knock on the door if it didn't appear that there was too much danger. 

Neither my brother nor sister have fired a gun to my knowledge and I don't believe either would know how to chamber a round let alone know they need to do so thus I would not be frighted to try to disarm either if they had a gun unless I heard shots being fired.  I would not make up a story to police that they fired all my weapons and were thus definitely capable of using them and thus try to scare police from going in peering inside.

When I was in college my sister phoned in the middle of the night crying and said my brother had a gun and she feared he was going to kill everyone in the house.  He had a drinking problem at the time.  I went over to see what was going on.  It turned out the gun was in a case in the closet.  I assumed he had it on him.  She woke me up not because he had a gun in his hands currently, she saw him in he kitchen with it, he put it in the box and then the box in the closet.  Instead of hiding the box she woke me up and made it sound urgent.  Did I call police or tell anyone?  No because I didn't believe my brother would shoot anyone even if drunk (mean drunk not a happy drunk) except maybe by accident. 

I open the box and what was the gun?  A pellet gun.  It used CO2 to shoot metal pellets.

Maybe someone in my place would have in addition phoned police it depends on if they truly fear the relative in question using a gun against the family.  Evne if i had calle dpolice i would have gone over without qualm to at minimum listen from outside if there was any shooting and would not lie ot police about my brother's capabilities with a gun to make them scared and want to shoot him as soon as they encountered him. 

Before I call police I would want to make sure they are needed to resolve it rather than risk them just killing my brother for nothing.

Jeremy's actions demonstrated no concern at all for those inside he was too busy trashing Sheila to convince police that she had done it when they went inside and found the bodies and calmly talked with them about cars and guy stuff as opposed to suggesting they go inside and find out how his fmaily was.  Hours went by before he asked what was taking so long and feigned being worried and did so to justify calling Julie to have her not go to work so she coudl be a witness for him.

you try so hard to find evidence of police doign things out of fals epretense and despite straining can't find any examples but intentionally ignore all the evidence of Jeremy having done such down to staging the 30 bullets in the kitchen.  Never does anyone answer the question asked hundreds of times- why would Sheila use 18-20 bullets from that batch then suddeenly stop loading the magazine half way and go to the closet to get another 5-7 rounds?  It makes so sense quite obviously those bullets were staged by Jeremy.

Pretending these things ar enot contrived and irraitonal so you don't have to deal with them doesn't make these issues go away.  It simply issulatrates how you choose to beleive what you want to becaus eo fbias and that is the great dividie between guilters and non-guilters. 

 

[Jan]

Scipio can you show me the document from the police logs / notes from the original incident where it says he told the police she had shot all the guns in the house.

If he had been planning this for months and it was a calculated frame of Sheila then if he had been clever he would have made damn sure there WAS evidence that she had used the guns - and yet he told the police in his statement he had NOT seen her use the guns - only that she may have gone out with his father.

If he had said that she had gone out with himself sometimes - who would have been able to disprove it ? No one .


And why did the statement of the relatives get changed when they said they had seen her with guns?

And why do you thing her fingerprints were on the shotgun in the house?

[nugnug]

her fingerprints were found on 3 guns i belive