Author Topic: Is Sheila guilty?  (Read 24862 times)

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Offline Jan

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2014, 10:36:PM »
A statement against interest is an exception to the hearsay rule.  Telling someone you would like to commit a crime and why and that you did so are admissible even though you wish that were not the case.  This legally it can indeed be used as proof and outside of court the same principle holds true.

not  if he never actually said those words - and the person was not telling the whole truth.
Because they were jilted
Because they were offered money by the N.O.W ( and then promptly said he never admitted his guilt)
Because they were convinced by the 30   plus interviews with the police that he was guilty and they were part of the "noble cause"
They were perhaps "embellishing" some odd comments that had been made in the heat of the moment but were twisted to Suit the "cause "

etc etc etc.

BTW my boss had better look out , he seriously seriously threatened to kill a member of a staff the other day - in front of 5 witnesses . And I am not joking - it was scary.


Offline Alias

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2014, 10:37:PM »
Run over.... THIS??? WHY?


Offline lookout

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2014, 10:40:PM »
A statement against interest is an exception to the hearsay rule.  Telling someone you would like to commit a crime and why and that you did so are admissible even though you wish that were not the case.  This legally it can indeed be used as proof and outside of court the same principle holds true.

not  if he never actually said those words - and the person was not telling the whole truth.
Because they were jilted
Because they were offered money by the N.O.W ( and then promptly said he never admitted his guilt)
Because they were convinced by the 30   plus interviews with the police that he was guilty and they were part of the "noble cause"
They were perhaps "embellishing" some odd comments that had been made in the heat of the moment but were twisted to Suit the "cause "

etc etc etc.

BTW my boss had better look out , he seriously seriously threatened to kill a member of a staff the other day - in front of 5 witnesses . And I am not joking - it was scary.





You know what they say about some bosses,Jansus ! 

Offline Adam

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2014, 11:03:PM »
A statement against interest is an exception to the hearsay rule.  Telling someone you would like to commit a crime and why and that you did so are admissible even though you wish that were not the case.  This legally it can indeed be used as proof and outside of court the same principle holds true.

not  if he never actually said those words - and the person was not telling the whole truth.
Because they were jilted
Because they were offered money by the N.O.W ( and then promptly said he never admitted his guilt)
Because they were convinced by the 30   plus interviews with the police that he was guilty and they were part of the "noble cause"
They were perhaps "embellishing" some odd comments that had been made in the heat of the moment but were twisted to Suit the "cause "

etc etc etc.

BTW my boss had better look out , he seriously seriously threatened to kill a member of a staff the other day - in front of 5 witnesses . And I am not joking - it was scary.

We have gone over this several times.

Jeremy was also offerred money by the NOTW. He accepted but complained it was not enough.

Julie had no idea a NOTW offer would be forthcoming when she bravely approached the police.

It is inconceivable Julie would tell such serious lies for such a trivial reason. There is dispute whether Julie was jilted. Anyway scorned woman are just as likely to tell the truth.

Julie has never said Jeremy did it. Just said about Jeremys hatred, resentment & plans. Then said Jeremy said Matthew Mcdonald was hired.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 11:04:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2014, 11:09:PM »
Telling someone that they could kill their parents is one thing, but proving that that person carried it out is another.

It is my opinion that neither Sheila or Jeremy is proved beyond my doubt that they either of them carried this horrendous crime out.

The only sceptical Scorpio is that people wont dig enough to find the real truth of what happened that night.  OK Jeremy is convicted of the murders, he is guilty in the eyes of the law. There is no doubt about that.

Had the series of events leading up to, and after the murders been documented correctly and all forensic evidence gathered and thoroughly examined  then we would not be here today discussing it. 

I personally doubt a jury of today would convict Jeremy based on what the CPS gave them in 1985. 

When you examine the case fully there is more flaws in it than a farmers colander.

1. No forensic evidence exists to place Jeremy at the scene. No fibres, no prints, no break in, no evidence found at his home, in his car, on his clothes....

No killer can be so squeaky clean  both at the crime scene and home....nearly all killers leave a trace. 

Please. I hope you don't mean I am a hypocrite?  I seek the truth, I don't blaspheme those who think he guilty..

It takes a strong person and a reasonable one to have a good debate without the name calling.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

I don't believe for 1 second that those here insisting he is innocent and the evidence is flawed would have different views if police had crossed their ts and dotted their Is better.

Those who insist he is innocent look for any excuse int he world to try to pretend the evidence is not reliable and to ignore it.

There is nothing at all to suggest the suppressor evidence was planted and it would have taken an extraordinary effort to do so.  The claim that people would believe the suppressor evidence if there were more police documents is disingenuine.  You are unwilling to accept the testimony of the police on the issue though they were questioned more than twice after the murders and gave staements before the murders. Choosing not to trust them has nothing to do with them having too many people and how they handled it. It has to do with wanting to believe Jeremy is innocent and making any excuse in the world to pretend that is possible.

The truth is that anyone planting blood would have used a dropper or a vial not to have sprayed blood inside. 

Only the lab would have had the skill to plant the evidence in the manner it was distributed not the family and not police.  only the lab would have been able to conceal evidence found in the rifle as well because if the rifle were used it would have had back spatter in it.

There has NEVER been a documented case of a lab planting back spatter in a weapon. WHat is described as the worst MOJ in UK history involved the prosecution failing to disclose the existence of semen on a victim because the defendat was incapable of productng sperm.  So not even the worst documented MOJ involved planting blood let alone back spatter in a weapon.  Intentional lab wrongdoing is rare but there are no cases of any grand conspiracies between labs and police.

If police were going to plant evidence and lie they had no need at all to involve the fmaily.  They could just pretend they took the suppressor the first day if they wanted.  If the guy filling the forms out was in on it as alleged then he could simply have falsified a form.  There was no need to pretend the family found it.

Cop after cop said they saw no significance in the suppressor even after it was collected.  It took the lab to understand the significance if there were group A blood inside. Yet you claim police should have been able to know it's significance.

The attacks on the suppressor are contrived plain and simple the same way excuse after excuse is made to try to pretend Jeremy could have received a call from Nevill.

There is nothing police could have done to Sheila's body to affect how her body proves she didn't kill herself.

Sheila was sitting up leaning against something when she was shot that is the only way blood could have gotten on her arm and gown the way it did.  If she were not sitting up the blood could not have gotten there and if she had not been sitting against something she would have fell backwards and been flat so the blood would not have gotten there.

She wasn't sitting up for long though, shortly after being shot she was moved flat to the location where police found her.  The blood pool indicates such and so does the blood running down the side of her neck.  She died seated but someone moved her flat shortly after she was shot.

She was long dead before police moved her body they can't possibly have caused the blood pool or blood down the side of he rneck.

So the complains about their shoddy work have nothing at all to do with the evenidence that proves she didn't kill herself.

The reason why peopel insist it doe sis because they want desperately to believe in Jeremy's innocence.   

People believe police, family and Julie lied and framed Jeremy not because ther eis any evidence to suggest it but rather because they want desperately to believe Jeremy didn't do it and in order for him to be innocent the lab, police , family and Julie all had to frame him in a vast conspiracy.

Don't insult my intelligence trying to tell me that this vast conspiracy is suppsecte dbecause of the sloppy job police did.  People who want to believe in this conspiracy grasp at any straw possible to try to pretend it happened and the sloppy police work is one of those straws.

People who doubt his guilt do so not because of the evidence leads them to believe such they refuse to believe police testimony and the evidence no matter what simply because they want Jeremy to be inocent.

The same way 9/11 conspiracy theorists decided what they want to believe before reviwing any evidence and decide to believe regardless of the evidence that proves them wrong.

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2014, 11:24:PM »
A statement against interest is an exception to the hearsay rule.  Telling someone you would like to commit a crime and why and that you did so are admissible even though you wish that were not the case.  This legally it can indeed be used as proof and outside of court the same principle holds true.

not  if he never actually said those words - and the person was not telling the whole truth.
Because they were jilted
Because they were offered money by the N.O.W ( and then promptly said he never admitted his guilt)
Because they were convinced by the 30   plus interviews with the police that he was guilty and they were part of the "noble cause"
They were perhaps "embellishing" some odd comments that had been made in the heat of the moment but were twisted to Suit the "cause "

etc etc etc.


The trier of fact decides whether to believe the claim it is admissible and if credible can be very powerful evidence.


BTW my boss had better look out , he seriously seriously threatened to kill a member of a staff the other day - in front of 5 witnesses . And I am not joking - it was scary.

The staff member better be careful because you never know.  Some peopel who make threats actually follow through.  I witnessed a guy run over his exgirlfriend and stab her to death and he did so right in front of her little girl, the car just missed her.  They were walking from the grocery store and the wagon protected the girl.  The guy waited for cops to get him he didn't run either.  You never know.

He also better watchout because if anyone hates him or the boss enough the person could kill him and frame the boss.  The witnesses could indeed testify about his threat.

Unless you are saying that in jest and everyone knows it not wise at all.  Plus just making the threat can constitute a crime and could even be sued for civil damages in some instances including hostile work environment.

Did the guy do anything to deserve it?  I have gotten death threats over stupid things neve ranything good. 

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jan

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2014, 11:28:PM »
We have gone over this several times.

Jeremy was also offerred money by the NOTW. He accepted but complained it was not enough.

Julie had no idea a NOTW offer would be forthcoming when she bravely approached the police.

It is inconceivable Julie would tell such serious lies for such a trivial reason. There is dispute whether Julie was jilted. Anyway scorned woman are just as likely to tell the truth.

Julie has never said Jeremy did it. Just said about Jeremys hatred, resentment & plans. Then said Jeremy said Matthew Mcdonald was hired.
you have got a cheek .you repeat things more than anyone. It is not relevant that Jeremy got offered a deal .It was not exactly going to influence his testimony was it? And she said in her statement on the night .She laid in bed and she knew he had done it. Not a hit man but him.

Offline Patti

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2014, 11:29:PM »
I knew I was in for a big one lol

We can argue points all day long about the same old thing and I'm afraid I'm not going to lured into that.

Do you rattle a lot in real life? lol

Take care Scopio.... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline lookout

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2014, 11:29:PM »
 Firstly,,I believed in 9/11. I don't do theories..I'm not looking for excuses for his innocence for as far as I'm concerned,he could be absolutely anyone who is seeking to find justice,,and I would do all I could,,no matter who they were,,to try and help in some way.

You can't just jump in feet first like everyone else did,,on the say-so of others,,as this is exactly what's happened and resulted in an unfair trial.



Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2014, 11:45:PM »
Run over.... THIS??? WHY?



how can you not think it is an ugly, annoying thing?  It is asking for a beating.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2014, 11:49:PM »
you have got a cheek .you repeat things more than anyone. It is not relevant that Jeremy got offered a deal .It was not exactly going to influence his testimony was it? And she said in her statement on the night .She laid in bed and she knew he had done it. Not a hit man but him.

and she stayed with him for a little while after so what does that say about her?  It astonishes me how people can stand by someone knowing they killed someone. It happens  a lot but is still incomprehendable. 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Alias

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2014, 11:52:PM »
how can you not think it is an ugly, annoying thing?  It is asking for a beating.

I guess I have a mean streak - I am giggling now! Yes, it is ugly!  8)

Offline grahameb

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2014, 11:42:AM »
I hate to tell you this but you are wrong factually and legally.

A statement against interest is an exception to the hearsay rule.  Telling someone you would like to commit a crime and why and that you did so are admissible even though you wish that were not the case.  This legally it can indeed be used as proof and outside of court the same principle holds true. 

In the case at hand though Sheila's claims are working for creating reasonable doubt. 

I realize you are as biased as can be but this thread is about the hypocrisy of many Jeremy supporters as well as the complete lack of evidence against Sheila.

As we speak there are threads galore about notes that no one has any evidence Sheila wrote but that are being deciphered in an attempt to suggest these notes demonstrate how crazy she was and therefore she must be guilty.  Instead of trying her on evidence people are trying her on mental state of mind alone precisely because there is no evidence of her guilt. 

I have layed out what evidence has been used to try to suggest she is guilty and the evidence that disputes that.

Many of the same people clammoring for justice and insisting there are so many cases of defendants being railroaded support railroading Sheila.  It is quite the pathetic spectacle.

The funny part is that I doubt the hypocrites will ever owe up to it and will continue to claim the evidence against her is strong evne though there is less evidence than in the cases they complained about as MOJs.
Steady on there old chap. I most strongly object to that prejudicial remark. You are judging people's motives which you are not qualified to do being an ordinary non mind reading human.
Also I thought this thread was about whether Sheila was guilty or not? Not about judging an unknown membership from your ivory tower?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 11:46:AM by Grahame »

Offline Jan

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2014, 01:04:PM »
and she stayed with him for a little while after so what does that say about her?  It astonishes me how people can stand by someone knowing they killed someone. It happens  a lot but is still incomprehendable.

Sorry are you being sarcastic - or are you actually saying you believe her second statements ( not the first)  and she stayed with him knowing he was responsible - even after doing the ID on those poor twins? And especially knowing ( according to her) that he had planned every everything?

Offline Alias

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Re: Is Sheila guilty?
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2014, 01:07:PM »
Sorry are you being sarcastic - or are you actually saying you believe her second statements ( not the first)  and she stayed with him knowing he was responsible - even after doing the ID on those poor twins? And especially knowing ( according to her) that he had planned every everything?

Not to forget - she cold have prevented this and saved them, if we are to believe her story.