Accomplice, who was he?

[lookout]

Alias/lookout

after the horrendous murders at WHF Taff Jones was convinced it was 4 murders and one suicide so I am sure evidence would have been removed as a matter of course and the cupboard would have been searched. For some reason not known to us Taff was removed from the case and Ron Jones saw things differently than Taff and thought Jeremy was guilty of the murders the rest is history.  Now who planted the silencer I wonder!!!!

I too am more than convinced that it was 4 murders and a suicide,Susan.  It wasn't a case of Stan Jones seeing things differently. It was an opportunity for him to seek out those who were gullible,,JM for one,,and of course to back-up the relatives. There was absolutely no evidence whatsoever in which to build a case on,,so with the help of the relatives and JM of course,who all of a sudden hated Jeremy for dropping her, in place of someone else,,the cobbled-up investigation began.
  SJ looking for promotion,JM looking for money ( encouraged by SJ ) the relatives rubbing their hands.
Where was Jeremys' motive ? Everyone else had theirs. It was cut and dried out of nothing.

One thing I did pick up on,and that was the conversation on the phone when Pam rang June,,as apparently,,June had told her,and it has been shown, that" Sheila was very ill ". Justice Drake had told the jury that " it was just a relapse " that Sheila was having,,and had passed the matter off as just that.

[mike tesko]

Someone was still alive inside whf when Jeremy made his call to police from his cottage, provable by the fact that police who received the 3.26am call from Ralph Bamber, or whoever, were able to confirm that the call was being made from the scene. At that particular point in time (3.26am) the line between whf and the police was an open line in which Ralph provided the details which were contemporaneously recorded on the phone message log. Anyone else not privy to this call trying to make contact with the farmhouse by use of telephone would have been met by an engaged tone, which is precisely what Jeremy got when he tried to ring his father back at the scene. The matter of Ralphs call, and the separate call to the police by Jeremy were made to different recipients, at different times, 3.26am and 3.36am. To be specific, by the time Jeremy was making his own call to police at 3.36am, Ralph had already been in contact with the police (3.26am) and it may well be that Ralphs call had already ended or become terminated, so that when the recipient of Jeremy's call contacted PC West about the nature of Jeremys call, those details were recorded on the 3.26am phone log, "Message passed to CD by son"...

With this in mind, it can be shown that at 3.26am a phone call was made from the scene, and 10 minutes later another call was made by Jeremy from his cottage at Head Street, Goldhanger. The call made by Ralph to police at 3.26am must have lasted several minutes in order for the recipient of the call to record everything that got recorded, before mention of "message passed to CD by son" was added, which makes it impossible for Jeremy to have been at the farm, during the period of Ralphs call to police (3.26am to say 3.31am), and then be back at his cottage in Goldhanger in time to make his own call to police at 3.36am - this is the correct interpretation of what did occur, supported by phone records under power of the police and Special Branch...

If you take the time to think about the implications of what I have just said, somebody was still alive at whf whilst Jeremy was talking to police on the phone from his cottage. So either, someone who was the killer, or an accomplice was still alive at the scene, and all four victims already dead, or alive at that stage, or there was at least two of the victims still alive by that stage, Ralph and Sheila. Whichever way you look at it, Jeremy was not at the scene when he contacted the police at 3.36am, and it is even more relevant if you move the timing of Jeremy's call (by default) as having occurred at 3.26am, since it serves to establish to an even greater extent that Jeremy could not be in two places at the same time, and provide a different set of details that were recorded by two different recipients, in which the caller refrs to "my daughter has got hold of one of my guns", whereas the other recipient recorded, "Sheila has got the gun", or "She has got the gun", or "He has got the gun"...

If the contents of both phone logs were made as a result of the same call made by Jeremy from his cottage, how could two recipients make such fundamental mistakes in recording such simple and basic information?

The clocks were manipulated to help try and merge both calls into the same one, but it does not work unless the recipient of Ralphs call also made the same fundamental mistake of recording the time of Ralphs call 10 minutes later than it actually occurred (3.15am), in which case, you end up having to adequately explain all the contradictions and inconsistencies I have been speaking about...

[mike tesko]

Angle of the two shots into Sheila's neck does not show that she committed suicide. The reverse is true, it gives a clear indication that she was shot at least once by another, and that this original shot did not kill her immediately. No matter what anybody says, you cannot get a scenario whereby both shots at the conflicting angles were inflicted by her own hand, with use of the same gun, and she end up on the bed, or the floor with her right hand resting so innocent looking on top of the trigger mechanism, and ammunition magazine...

This was not four murders and a suicide, it was a five murders investigation, and police did shoot Sheila whether you choose to accept this or not. How was it possible then, after the arrival of the police surgeon, Dr Craig, for him to examine Sheila's neck and confirm her as being dead at 8.44am (on the far side of the bed) with a solitary bullet wound to her neck, and bear in mind that when Julie Mugford went to identify the bodies at the mortuary, she only saw a single bullet wound under Sheila's chin - so with this in mind, can somebody please try to explain what was going off here? Since, if you look at the crime scene photographs taken by PC Bird which show Sheila positioned on the bedroom floor, and the unmistakable presence of two bullet holes in her neck, so how does Dr Craig only see one bullet hole at 8.44am on the morning of the shootings, and later when Mugford views Sheila's body at the morgue, the second bullet hole on her neck has been hidden by "make up" or some other method, you can't make up this kind of evidence, and it needs looking at to get to the bottom of it...

Police shot Sheila a second time, after Dr Craig confirmed her of being dead at the scene by 8.44am, when in fact she was not dead...

[mike tesko]

According to one of the police logs, no sooner do the raid team smash the door in to the farmhouse, including several knocks, than voices are overheard which is surprising in view of the police adopting stealth once they get into the premises. So if voices were overheard, who the hell was screaming, and shouting out loudly at that time? The police? Surely not...

So, what we have is the actual account of what took place once police went into the farmhouse, discovering two dead bodies once they got into the kitchen, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female, and nothing more heard, or mentioned until 8.10am when the next event of any significance records for the FACT that a further three bodies were found upstairs, which differ from the witness statement accounts of the raid team officers, which place only one body downstairs, with the other four bodies found upstairs...

Under these circumstances, questions need to be asked about the voices overheard when the first police officer forced his way through and beyond the blocked off internal door behind which Ralph Bambers body had been sat slumped...

Were the voices heard and recorded on audio tape all male voices, or was one of these voices a female one? The key phrase recorded in the police log, is that "voices were heard", not a voice...

[mike tesko]

Who was shouting out and screaming when the first of the raid team squeezed his way through the gap of the internal kitchen:-

Ralph Bamber?
June Bamber?
Sheila Caffell?

[mike tesko]

OK, lets approach the matter from a different perspective:-

We have different accounts about what police discovered after entering the main kitchen at whf...

(1) police log account - two bodies downstairs in kitchen upon entry, a further five bodies upstairs...
(2) police witness statement contents, one body downstairs in kitchen, other four bodies upstairs...

Police recorded the entry of the raid team into the main kitchen on audio tapes via the telephone intercept arranged by the Operator, via the telephone with its handset off the hook on the kitchen worktop. Several loud knocks were overheard and recorded on audio tape, as was the sound of voices. No-one can convince me that police would have destroyed the recording on these audio tapes in view of the very serious discrepancies surrounding where the bodies of the victims had been found inside the farmhouse, in particular, how many bodies were found in the kitchen, by reference to these / those recordings? It becomes a necessary part of any internal police investigation into these serious inconsistencies that the audio recordings would form part and parcel of any finding of this matter, one way or another. If voices were overheard, and recorded, there must exist a transcript of what was said by whom at the height of the event, and based upon this approach it becomes possible to establish which account is the true one, namely, the message log account (two bodies downstairs, three bodies upstairs), or the witness statement account (one body downstairs, four bodies upstairs)...

One of the noises referred to as a knock could have been the shot discharged by police at the time Sheila was shot across the neck?

[mike tesko]

If the audio recording of the entry into the kitchen at whf involving voices being overheard supports the case for two bodies found upon entry, then police would not want to disclose those recordings, they might say the audio tapes have been inadvertently dubbed over or erased or lost. On the other hand, if the audio recordings support the case for a solitary body being found in the kitchen upon entry, you would expect police to provide access to the recording, or to a transcript of the audio recording to establish what the truth was / is - so, that is something we have to take into account...

[Caroline]

Who was shouting out and screaming when the first of the raid team squeezed his way through the gap of the internal kitchen:-

Ralph Bamber?
June Bamber?
Sheila Caffell?

Hi Mike, where does it say 'shouting and screaming'? The person listening in wouldn't know it was just one persons voice because they couldn't see what was going on - under the circumstances, it doesn't seem strange (to me) that they said 'voices' and not 'voice'.

[mike tesko]

Hi Mike, where does it say 'shouting and screaming'? The person listening in wouldn't know it was just one persons voice because they couldn't see what was going on - under the circumstances, it doesn't seem strange (to me) that they said 'voices' and not 'voice'.

Hi Caroline,

Who's voice was heard though, was it Sheila's?

You see I have been told that there was some screaming and shouting, and that Sheila got shot, and before the other officers could get through the door, the officer who had shot sheila, shouted out aloud to the other officers who were still on the other side of the kitchen door  the following intelligence:-

"The body of one dead male, and the body of one female"...

This was responded to by a voice from the other side of the door with:-

"can you confirm, say again", to which Woodcock replied, "One dead male, one dead female"...

That is what happened, and that is what is recorded on the audio tape, and what was written up in the various handwritten logs ...

[mike tesko]

I was as also told, that Ralphs body was not toppled over into the position it was photographed in, but rather that he was still sat slumped in the chair he was sat on, trapped there because of a second large wooden chair which had jamved against the corner of the aga surround when police forced open the internal kitchen door. As the door was inched forward. the chair that Ralph was sat upon slid across into the other chair, twisting it until it fell over sideways onto the floor...

I was told that the training officers shifted Ralphs body from a seatimg position on the chair, to the one shown in the crrime scene photo's, and it was the police who put Ralphs head into the coal bucket so as to restrict the flow of blood from his head wounds...

[mike tesko]

Furthermore, once the other raid team members managed to get into the kitchen, another message was passed, requesting the "attendance of the police surgeon, and coroners officer, regarding two bodies"...

[mike tesko]

So, at least we know how the contents of the police radio message logs (timed at 7.37am, 7.38am and 7.42am) came into existence, and the truth behind those contemporaneously recorded messages...

[mike tesko]

There are no police radio message log records to confirm that PC Collins had seen a female body on the floor behind a door in the main kitchen, this is despite the fact that the police Commander of the operation at that time (PS Adams) confirming that he received a message to that effect over the police open mike equipment in use at the scene. So, if this is true there must exist other police logs which contain what PC Collins saw on that occasion. It certainly could not have been Ralph Bambers body bejind a door, because from PC Collins vantage point the body he saw was behind a door, not in front of it. The only door through which PC Collins could see beyond from his position outside the kitchen window, was the pantry door on the opposite wall of the main kitchen. So, this sheds more light on what was seen, who saw what and where...

If it wasn't Sheila on the floor behind the pantry door, then who was it?

Was it Ralph?
Was it June?

Or was it an accomplice?

[mike tesko]

There are no police radio message log records to confirm that PC Collins had seen a female body on the floor behind a door in the main kitchen, this is despite the fact that the police Commander of the operation at that time (PS Adams) confirming that he received a message to that effect over the police open mike equipment in use at the scene. So, if this is true there must exist other police logs which contain what PC Collins saw on that occasion. It certainly could not have been Ralph Bambers body behind a door, because from PC Collins vantage point the body of Ralph would have been in front of the door, not behind it. The only door through which PC Collins could see beyond, in order to describe such a female body from his position outside the kitchen window, was the pantry door on the opposite wall of the main kitchen. So, this sheds more light on what was seen, who saw what, and where...

If it wasn't Sheila on the floor behind the pantry door, then who was it?

Was it Ralph?
Was it June?

Or was it an accomplice?

[mike tesko]

Picture yourself for a moment standing outside the kitchen window at the scene before the raid team entered the farmhouse, let alone the main kitchen.As you are stood there looking in, you have the internal kitchen door in the left hand corner of the room  which is closed. You can't see enough of this door to know there was a door there at all, let alone see anyone sat on a wooden chair in front of it, because the angle from the kitchen window is too acute. Now, one thing at this point becomes obvious from your vantage point, and that is that not only can't you see the door itself, or anybody sat in front of that door, but you sure as hell ain't got any chance of seeing or knowing what is behind that particular door...

If you know what I mean...