Jeremys second phone call to Julie:

[Neil]

Flawed character ? No 20 year is perfect. It was not her fault Jeremy rang her at 3.00am.

Susan Battersby committed minor fraud with her own cheque book. And.

Forgive me Adam, but I have to ask......are you drunk?

[Adam]

There is something flawed and it's your powers (or lack) of reasoning.

Thank you.

[Caroline]

For me the main issue is Julie had already told the police Jeremy did it before mentioning the bank fraud. She had also confessed about the caravan break in. So was prepared to be charged.

She was not blackmailed into confessing.

She didn't go to the police of her own accord!! She was FORCED into it - Liz Rimmington told the police NOT Julie Mugford- but you go on living in your dream world. You're not here to learn about the case, you're here to try and wind people up. You haven't learned anything since you have been here because you're STILL repeating the same inaccuracies.

[Caroline]

Forgive me Adam, but I have to ask......are you drunk?

Blind!

[Neil]

For me the main issue is Julie had already told the police Jeremy did it before mentioning the bank fraud. She had also confessed about the caravan break in. So was prepared to be charged.

She was not blackmailed into confessing.

The bank fraud is neither here or there.

Julie obviously disagreed, which is why, according to Mr Doveys statement, she continued to lie about their meeting. 

[Jane]

...................................The bank fraud is neither here or there.

I rather imagine Mr Dovey didn't share that view.

[Adam]

She didn't go to the police of her own accord!! She was FORCED into it - Liz Rimmington told the police NOT Julie Mugford- but you go on living in your dream world. You're not here to learn about the case, you're here to try and wind people up. You haven't learned anything since you have been here because you're STILL repeating the same inaccuracies.

Yes Liz Rimmington rang the police. Julie was with Liz.

Who is Liz Rimmington to force Julie ?

Julie was ready to tell the police after telling Liz.

The police knew nothing about Susans bank fraud or Jeremys caravan break in. Julie told them. She also told them about Jeremys involvement in the massacre.

[Caroline]

Yes Liz Rimmington rang the police. Julie was with Liz.

Who is Liz Rimmington to force Julie ?

Julie was ready to tell the police after telling Liz.

The police knew nothing about Susans bank fraud or Jeremys caravan break in. Julie told them. She also told them about Jeremys involvement in the massacre.

You're not ale to grasp it but I'll try one more time and see if it sinks in ........ she had ro tell them about the bank fraud, she had to tell them because Jeremy knew about it and it would have been used to discredit her testimony. She would have been asked if there was ANYTHING in her past that the defence could use against her. So she was left with little choice but to come clean. It was NOTHING to do with guilt or the need to do the right thing - she had NO CHOICE.

The police were then left with a bit of a problem, keep quiet and it would be used to discredit their prize witness. Better to try and plaster over the cracks by 'pretending' (in a moment of guilty clarity) that she and SB went cap in hand to appeal to the bank manager for mercy. While what really happened was tht the police called the head office and smoothed over the issue and it was a formality that JM and SB went to the bank with a police officer - simply to show willing so that if questions were asked there would be at least some evidence to back up the 'story' from JM and SB's statements.

[Adam]

You're not ale to grasp it but I'll try one more time and see if it sinks in ........ she had ro tell them about the bank fraud, she had to tell them because Jeremy knew about it and it would have been used to discredit her testimony. She would have been asked if there was ANYTHING in her past that the defence could use against her. So she was left with little choice but to come clean. It was NOTHING to do with guilt or the need to do the right thing - she had NO CHOICE.

The police were then left with a bit of a problem, keep quiet and it would be used to discredit their prize witness. Better to try and plaster over the cracks by 'pretending' (in a moment of guilty clarity) that she and SB went cap in hand to appeal to the bank manager for mercy. While what really happened was tht the police called the head office and smoothed over the issue and it was a formality that JM and SB went to the bank with a police officer - simply to show willing so that if questions were asked there would be at least some evidence to back up the 'story' from JM and SB's statements.

I will say this again so it sinks in.

Julie went to the police via Liz Rimington.

She told them what Jeremy had said & about the caravan break in.

Julie's 1984 cheque book fraud was not in the equation.

Julie had no reason to lie. The police had nothing to blackmail her with.

[Adam]

I always felt it was fanciful that Julie agreed to create a false WS & diary. Then lie in court because the police threatened to charge her with involvement in Julie's cheque book fraud.

Julies WS is 8/9/85. The bank managers WS relates to Susan & Julie attending the bank on 4/10/85. Separate issues.

She also paid the money back long before the trial. But all this is negated by the fact that the police escorted her to the bank,   

[Adam]

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=289.0

[maggie]

I will say this again so it sinks in.

Julie went to the police via Liz Rimington.

She told them what Jeremy had said & about the caravan break in.

Susans 1984 cheque book fraud was not in the equation.
Julie had no reason to lie. The police had nothing to blackmail her with.

You REALLY need to read the statements and interviews Adam you haven't got the faintest idea about the facts of this case.

[Adam]

Good point Graheme.

Julie knew that Jeremy knew about her cheque book fraud.

So why did Julie go to the police if she knew Jeremy could implicate her with her cheque book fraud ? Was she really worried about getting a criminal record & her teaching career. Or did she decide telling the truth was the right thing to do ?

And why tell the police about the caravan break in ? Again risking getting a criminal record & her teaching career. 

And why go to the police at all. Knowing she could be charged with withholding information, again getting a criminal record ? Going to the police means standing up in court & getting cross examined. An ordeal for anyone.

Julie's cheque book fraud was brought up nearly a month after her Witness Statement had been finished. There was no reason to intially lie. Unless she really was jilted & unbeileivably vindictive as well as totally confident of not getting found out & charged with perjury.  But scorned women are just as likely to tell the truth.

[Caroline]

You REALLY need to read the statements and interviews Adam you haven't got the faintest idea about the facts of this case.

Sorry Maggie, I'm too busy laughing to post any more - I give up, it's impossible to debate with someone like Adam because he can't admit when he's wrong and he doesn't doesn't listen and he doesn't seem to know what a fact is. All that matters is HIS opinion. 

[susan]

Morning Adam was Susan jilted as well.  Oh dear