Further developments regarding phone calls:

[Adam]

My last thread established that Jeremy is certainly guilty.

There was no credible answer to the question of what Sheila was doing when Neville made his 3.20am phone call to Jeremy. Even if there was a realistic situation there are 19 reasons/facts why Jeremy would not be called. Nevilles words 'come quickly', 'crazy' & 'gun' suggest shots were being or about to be fired. There was not a spare 30 seconds, never mind five minutes. Jeremy arriving 20 minutes later would be no use.

I created a thread called 'An alibi from a dead person is better than no alibi at all'. However it is possible phoning the police was not part of the original plan. Jeremy would know phoning the police would round the suspects down to two.

Ideally everyone would be shot in bed. Sheila either shot in bed and given the gun. Or taken to the twins bedroom & shot on the floor. However things went pear shaped when Neville got downstairs and had to be beaten. Jeremy realised this could be explained by an aborted phone call from Neville to Jeremy,  providing there was no phone in the main bedroom.

The judge called the phone call mysterious. The jury would have discussed the liklihood of the phone call happening, the reasons why it would or would not happen,  together with a credible situation where Neville felt safe & confident enough to spend five minutes making the call. In the spur of the moment Jeremy may not have considered this.  But had to improvise, rather than go back to bed & then to work as usual. Waiting for someone else to find the bodies.

Do other people believe the phone call was part of the original plan ?

[lookout]

And this is ALL YOUR OWN WORK

[susan]

Morning Lookout  of course it is not all his own work why do you think he has not  been posting and some posters thought he had done a runner

[susan]

Lookout  just read his posts and I do think it is his own work

[lookout]

Phone-calls aside,,as this has been done to death.Let's ask another question.
Sheila was still alive at 6am,,until at least another hour later,,Jeremy was outside the farmhouse,,so how could he possibly have killed Sheila,as the house had been surrounded by police and Jeremy had been with them for over 2 hours at this point,and NOBODY left that house either through a window,or indeed a door ?
Also outside,was an alsation dog,trained in the scent of gunpowder,,which is easily detectable-------even after washing,,,but guess what,,no traces of residue were picked up from Jeremy after allegedly firing ALL those shots.

[Adam]

Phone-calls aside,,as this has been done to death.Let's ask another question.
Sheila was still alive at 6am,,until at least another hour later,,Jeremy was outside the farmhouse,,so how could he possibly have killed Sheila,as the house had been surrounded by police and Jeremy had been with them for over 2 hours at this point,and NOBODY left that house either through a window,or indeed a door ?
Also outside,was an alsation dog,trained in the scent of gunpowder,,which is easily detectable-------even after washing,,,but guess what,,no traces of residue were picked up from Jeremy after allegedly firing ALL those shots.

Sheila was alive at 6 ? Was she waving from the bedroom window ?

What sniffer dogs ? Jeremy was not a suspect & was sitting in the car. He would have also showered.

[Jan]

Adam is judge and jury on conjecture, assumption, embellishment and a narrow mind.

I for one will not be answering his questions over and over again. Not once has even acknowledged the possibility that there is any alternative than his "scenario" . So  there is no "discussion" only lecturing and that is not the point of this forum. 

[lookout]

Sheila was alive at 6 ? Was she waving from the bedroom window ?

What sniffer dogs ? Jeremy was not a suspect & was sitting in the car. He would have also showered.

You stupid boy. Of course he wasn't a suspect at that point,,just think about it. A sniffer dog outside,,who is trained in gun residue,,that if Jeremy had killed his family,,the dog would have picked up the scent and gone straight for Jeremy.
However,,it's procedure anyway,,that when ONE member of a family happens to have reported an incident,,the police by their very nature are suspicious characters and so in having the dog there,they can discount that person as having been involved,,,which is what initially happened.

[susan]

lookout well said the sniffer dog was taken to the farm as normal police procedure and showed no interest in Jeremy at all probably found the rabbits more interesting    Have you noticed how Adam shows no respect for the dead at all with his suggestions of cheese and pickle sandwich waving from the window quite disgusting in my way of thinking suppose it is all in the upbringing or maybe not old enough yet to know right from wrong.

[grahameb]

My last thread established that Jeremy is certainly guilty.

There was no credible answer to the question of what Sheila was doing when Neville made his 3.20am phone call to Jeremy. Even if there was a realistic situation there are 19 reasons/facts why Jeremy would not be called. Nevilles words 'come quickly', 'crazy' & 'gun' suggest shots were being or about to be fired. There was not a spare 30 seconds, never mind five minutes. Jeremy arriving 20 minutes later would be no use.

I created a thread called 'An alibi from a dead person is better than no alibi at all'. However it is possible phoning the police was not part of the original plan. Jeremy would know phoning the police would round the suspects down to two.

Ideally everyone would be shot in bed. Sheila either shot in bed and given the gun. Or taken to the twins bedroom & shot on the floor. However things went pear shaped when Neville got downstairs and had to be beaten. Jeremy realised this could be explained by an aborted phone call from Neville to Jeremy,  providing there was no phone in the main bedroom.

The judge called the phone call mysterious. The jury would have discussed the liklihood of the phone call happening, the reasons why it would or would not happen,  together with a credible situation where Neville felt safe & confident enough to spend five minutes making the call. In the spur of the moment Jeremy may not have considered this.  But had to improvise, rather than go back to bed & then to work as usual. Waiting for someone else to find the bodies.

Do other people believe the phone call was part of the original plan ?

With so many people believing this to be a miscarriage of justice nothing has been "established" as you put it. What you think those who believe him to be innocent do so because they like him? Why then do so many lawyers believe him to be innocent? You have succeeded in establishing nothing.

[Jane]

I wonder, to whom, other than himself, did Adam mistakenly believe his cockeyed thread had established Jeremy's certain guilt.

[lookout]

lookout well said the sniffer dog was taken to the farm as normal police procedure and showed no interest in Jeremy at all probably found the rabbits more interesting    Have you noticed how Adam shows no respect for the dead at all with his suggestions of cheese and pickle sandwich waving from the window quite disgusting in my way of thinking suppose it is all in the upbringing or maybe not old enough yet to know right from wrong.

Hi Susan,,Adam has no respect-----------full stop,,neither for the dead nor the living !

[lookout]

Jeremys' phone-call was NOT a last minute decision anyway. He had been trying to ring his father back,,probably to ask if there was need to help,as happened in the past. Because Jeremy was getting an engaged tone,meant that the person on the other end of the phone was already speaking to someone,,,and that someone was the police,who Neville had rang at 03.26. Because Jeremy wasn't getting through to his father,,he too rang the police at 03.36.
So a simple answer to Jeremy having been unable to speak to his father was because his father was contacting the police. So what,10 minutes ? Jeremy would have been re-dialling which can take time if he had an older phone with the circular dial.

[Adam]

 At first Jeremy claimed that there was a click and the phone call was disconnected which would mean it was hung up at White House Farms, presumably by the killer. 

The phone company though said the phone was never hung up and simply remained off the hook. This prompted Jeremy to change his story from hearing a click to hearing various sounds including struggling and maybe gun shots being fired. 

He changed his story muliple times of what he heard.

[lookout]

At first Jeremy claimed that there was a click and the phone call was disconnected which would mean it was hung up at White House Farms, presumably by the killer.

The phone company though said the phone was never hung up and simply remained off the hook. This prompted Jeremy to change his story from hearing a click to hearing various sounds including struggling and maybe gun shots being fired. 

He changed his story muliple times of what he heard.

My word,,if Jeremy " had " changed his story,it would have been a genuine slip,,unlike others who not only changed their stories,,but also had statements altered too !!!