Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...

[curiousessex]

According to the book “Blood Relations” by Roger Wilkes on pages 262 and 263 it is detailed –

“The judge now proceeded to deal in great detail with two critical pieces of evidence which meshed with Julie Mugford’s story. The first concerned the telephone call that Jeremy Bamber claimed he’d received from his father in the small hours. According to Bamber, the sequence of events was:

1.   Before he had a chance to say a word to his father the line went dead.
2.   He tried ‘two or three times’ to phone his father back but the line was engaged.
3.   Instead of dialling 999, he looked up the number of the police at Chelmsford, and called them. The incoming call was logged as having been made at 3.36, although ‘giving the defence the benefit of the doubt’, the true timing seems to have been 3.26. Jeremy claimed he was kept hanging on the line for eleven minutes. A police car was dispatched from Witham, and Jeremy told to meet it at the farm.
4.   He telephoned Julie at Lewisham, feeling he needed ‘a friendly ear’ and telling her there was ‘trouble’ at the farm. Julie told him to go back to bed. Jeremy’s call seems to have woken most of the occupants at Julie’s lodgings, who testified that they heard the phone ringing at ‘about 3.a.m.,’ ‘3.12 a.m.,’ and ‘two-something”

Ann Eaton’s hand written notes as posted on the forum detail –

‘10pm. Pam phoned. June said ‘I want you to see how Sheil…
Sheila spoke to Pam. Did not say goodnight on the phone.
June said Sheila is going to bed now.
10pm. Jeremy phoned Julie? Why?
3 am. Nevill phoned Jeremy. (she’s got a - crossed out) ‘Sheila’ has got the gun. She has gone crazy. Then the line dead.
Jeremy phoned Chelmsford police. Who didn’t react at all quickly – 11 mins. Then said a police car from Witham would meet him at the Whitehouse.
Jeremy phoned Julie.
Then went to the Whitehouse. Police car arrived just in front of h…
They smashed the door down…..hrs later. Why did they think…
Uncle Nevill was in kitchen Nr scuttle. Badly shot.
Twins in bed shot
June on floor nr door.
Sheila on bed bible on chest. Gun beside her. Shot (through – crossed out)under chin.
Jeremyphoned Julie 6 am from Police Station (I think). A call box’

[Kaldin]

I don't really see the relevance of the timing of all the calls apart from the issue of whether there were one or two calls to the police. I think there was one - from Jeremy.

[curiousessex]

I don't really see the relevance of the timing of all the calls apart from the issue of whether there were one or two calls to the police. I think there was one - from Jeremy.

I am coming to the same conclusion.

Do you beleive there was a call from Nevill to Jeremy?

Depending upon your answer the timings are very important.

[mb1]

According to the book “Blood Relations” by Roger Wilkes on pages 262 and 263 it is detailed –

“The judge now proceeded to deal in great detail with two critical pieces of evidence which meshed with Julie Mugford’s story. The first concerned the telephone call that Jeremy Bamber claimed he’d received from his father in the small hours. According to Bamber, the sequence of events was:

1.   Before he had a chance to say a word to his father the line went dead.
2.   He tried ‘two or three times’ to phone his father back but the line was engaged.
3.   Instead of dialling 999, he looked up the number of the police at Chelmsford, and called them. The incoming call was logged as having been made at 3.36, although ‘giving the defence the benefit of the doubt’, the true timing seems to have been 3.26. Jeremy claimed he was kept hanging on the line for eleven minutes. A police car was dispatched from Witham, and Jeremy told to meet it at the farm.
4.   He telephoned Julie at Lewisham, feeling he needed ‘a friendly ear’ and telling her there was ‘trouble’ at the farm. Julie told him to go back to bed. Jeremy’s call seems to have woken most of the occupants at Julie’s lodgings, who testified that they heard the phone ringing at ‘about 3.a.m.,’ ‘3.12 a.m.,’ and ‘two-something”

Ann Eaton’s hand written notes as posted on the forum detail –

‘10pm. Pam phoned. June said ‘I want you to see how Sheil…
Sheila spoke to Pam. Did not say goodnight on the phone.
June said Sheila is going to bed now.
10pm. Jeremy phoned Julie? Why?
3 am. Nevill phoned Jeremy. (she’s got a - crossed out) ‘Sheila’ has got the gun. She has gone crazy. Then the line dead.
Jeremy phoned Chelmsford police. Who didn’t react at all quickly – 11 mins. Then said a police car from Witham would meet him at the Whitehouse.
Jeremy phoned Julie.
Then went to the Whitehouse. Police car arrived just in front of h…
They smashed the door down…..hrs later. Why did they think…
Uncle Nevill was in kitchen Nr scuttle. Badly shot.
Twins in bed shot
June on floor nr door.
Sheila on bed bible on chest. Gun beside her. Shot (through – crossed out)under chin.
Jeremyphoned Julie 6 am from Police Station (I think). A call box’

So the defence queried 10 minutes exactly without sight of the 3.26am log?
Psychic...

Again, the JM/Lewisham call is still perceived to be before that to the police.

According to AE (Mike Tesko says this is true and accurate re Sheila, so must accept it is true and accurate re everything?) - The police have a traumatised witness to a gun siege involving his family and won't let him use a station phone? Or JB chose not to use a station phone?

[curiousessex]

According to the book “Blood Relations” by Roger Wilkes on pages 262 and 263 it is detailed –

“The judge now proceeded to deal in great detail with two critical pieces of evidence which meshed with Julie Mugford’s story. The first concerned the telephone call that Jeremy Bamber claimed he’d received from his father in the small hours. According to Bamber, the sequence of events was:

1.   Before he had a chance to say a word to his father the line went dead.
2.   He tried ‘two or three times’ to phone his father back but the line was engaged.
3.   Instead of dialling 999, he looked up the number of the police at Chelmsford, and called them. The incoming call was logged as having been made at 3.36, although ‘giving the defence the benefit of the doubt’, the true timing seems to have been 3.26. Jeremy claimed he was kept hanging on the line for eleven minutes. A police car was dispatched from Witham, and Jeremy told to meet it at the farm.
4.   He telephoned Julie at Lewisham, feeling he needed ‘a friendly ear’ and telling her there was ‘trouble’ at the farm. Julie told him to go back to bed. Jeremy’s call seems to have woken most of the occupants at Julie’s lodgings, who testified that they heard the phone ringing at ‘about 3.a.m.,’ ‘3.12 a.m.,’ and ‘two-something”

Ann Eaton’s hand written notes as posted on the forum detail –

‘10pm. Pam phoned. June said ‘I want you to see how Sheil…
Sheila spoke to Pam. Did not say goodnight on the phone.
June said Sheila is going to bed now.
10pm. Jeremy phoned Julie? Why?
3 am. Nevill phoned Jeremy. (she’s got a - crossed out) ‘Sheila’ has got the gun. She has gone crazy. Then the line dead.
Jeremy phoned Chelmsford police. Who didn’t react at all quickly – 11 mins. Then said a police car from Witham would meet him at the Whitehouse.
Jeremy phoned Julie.
Then went to the Whitehouse. Police car arrived just in front of h…
They smashed the door down…..hrs later. Why did they think…
Uncle Nevill was in kitchen Nr scuttle. Badly shot.
Twins in bed shot
June on floor nr door.
Sheila on bed bible on chest. Gun beside her. Shot (through – crossed out)under chin.
Jeremyphoned Julie 6 am from Police Station (I think). A call box’

So the defence queried 10 minutes exactly without sight of the 3.26am log?
Psychic...

Again, the JM/Lewisham call is still perceived to be before that to the police.

According to AE (Mike Tesko says this is true and accurate re Sheila, so must accept it is true and accurate re everything?) - The police have a traumatised witness to a gun siege involving his family and won't let him use a station phone? Or JB chose not to use a station phone?

I think I read in the book ‘Blood Relations’ the call to Julie was from a telephone box and the Police gave Jeremy some money – I could be wrong. I thinmk the purpose of the call was to advise Julie that the Police would collect Julie to bring her to Jeremy in Goldhanger / Essex.

[Kaldin]

I don't really see the relevance of the timing of all the calls apart from the issue of whether there were one or two calls to the police. I think there was one - from Jeremy.

I am coming to the same conclusion.

Do you beleive there was a call from Nevill to Jeremy?

Depending upon your answer the timings are very important.

Ah, well the jury's still out on that one (by "jury" I mean myself). 

[curiousessex]

I don't really see the relevance of the timing of all the calls apart from the issue of whether there were one or two calls to the police. I think there was one - from Jeremy.

I am coming to the same conclusion.

Do you beleive there was a call from Nevill to Jeremy?

Depending upon your answer the timings are very important.

Ah, well the jury's still out on that one (by "jury" I mean myself). 

If there was a call from Nevill to Jeremy the timing of that call is critical and needs to be before Jeremy rings Julie.

Jeremy admits to ringing Julie.
Julie admits to receiving a call from Jeremy.
The co-inhabitants at Julie's place of residence heard the telephone ringing.
The co-inhabitants at Julie's place of residence testified that they heard the phone ringing at ‘about 3.a.m.,’ ‘3.12 a.m.,’ and ‘two-something”
Jeremy admits to telling Julie something was up at White House Farm althought there is some dispute about what was actually said.
Jeremy admits to ringing Julie after receiving a call from Nevill and ringing the Police.

If there was no call from Nevill to Jeremy......... How does Jeremy know there is anything happening at White House Farm?

[Kaldin]

I don't really see the relevance of the timing of all the calls apart from the issue of whether there were one or two calls to the police. I think there was one - from Jeremy.

I am coming to the same conclusion.

Do you beleive there was a call from Nevill to Jeremy?

Depending upon your answer the timings are very important.

Ah, well the jury's still out on that one (by "jury" I mean myself). 

If there was a call from Nevill to Jeremy the timing of that call is critical and needs to be before Jeremy rings Julie.

Jeremy admits to ringing Julie.
Julie admits to receiving a call from Jeremy.
The co-inhabitants at Julie's place of residence heard the telephone ringing.
The co-inhabitants at Julie's place of residence testified that they heard the phone ringing at ‘about 3.a.m.,’ ‘3.12 a.m.,’ and ‘two-something”
Jeremy admits to telling Julie something was up at White House Farm althought there is some dispute about what was actually said.
Jeremy admits to ringing Julie after receiving a call from Nevill and ringing the Police.

If there was no call from Nevill to Jeremy......... How does Jeremy know there is anything happening at White House Farm?

Indeed - I don't dispute that if there was no call from Nevill, then Jeremy must have been involved in the murder of his family. I just haven't decided if that call from Nevill happened or not.

[TheBrilliantMistake]

If someone proved call originated from WHF a few minutes prior to Jeremy phoning from Goldhanger, I'd declare JB innocent in a flash. I'd happily discount 'a hitman' and set him free.
I'd also get Mugford and the Family in a very dark room and ask them to explain themselves.
I'd also be fairly interested in the Police too, but accept they might be very lucky that I couldn't prove a lot.

If someone proved a call was made from WHF 15 minutes before Jeremy phoning from Goldhanger, it wouldn't really change a thing.

[Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)]

If someone proved call originated from WHF a few minutes prior to Jeremy phoning from Goldhanger, I'd declare JB innocent in a flash. I'd happily discount 'a hitman' and set him free.
I'd also get Mugford and the Family in a very dark room and ask them to explain themselves.
I'd also be fairly interested in the Police too, but accept they might be very lucky that I couldn't prove a lot.

If someone proved a call was made from WHF 15 minutes before Jeremy phoning from Goldhanger, it wouldn't really change a thing.

I agree. The precise time 10 minutes either way is not really important. What IS important is irrefutable evidence that a call was made from WHF to the police by Nevill Bamber. This would be independent proof that someone was still alive at WHF. And whether that was 3.16, 3.26 or 3.36am really doesn't matter.

Irrefutable evidence would be for example the elusive itemised phone bill.

[mb1]

If someone proved call originated from WHF a few minutes prior to Jeremy phoning from Goldhanger, I'd declare JB innocent in a flash. I'd happily discount 'a hitman' and set him free.
I'd also get Mugford and the Family in a very dark room and ask them to explain themselves.
I'd also be fairly interested in the Police too, but accept they might be very lucky that I couldn't prove a lot.

If someone proved a call was made from WHF 15 minutes before Jeremy phoning from Goldhanger, it wouldn't really change a thing.

I agree. The precise time 10 minutes either way is not really important. What IS important is irrefutable evidence that a call was made from WHF to the police by Nevill Bamber. This would be independent proof that someone was still alive at WHF. And whether that was 3.16, 3.26 or 3.36am really doesn't matter.

Think we'all agree. Hurrah! 

So not getting the itemised phone bill that Mike Tesko now says existed is a life-in-prison (might as well be fatal) mistake.
Mike says EP hold it under pii, but there would have been multiple avenues open for JB to attain this bill.

There would have been answering machine debate in court, but better that then NO proof.

If itemised billing existed, and the defence team didn't access this, I am beyond astonished.
Unless the billing told a different tale so they couldn't use it.

 

[Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)]

If itemised billing existed, and the defence team didn't access this, I am beyond astonished.
Unless the billing told a different tale so they couldn't use it.

That too is what I am beginning to wonder.

[Alex]

What is the "itemised billing" which is being referred to?  Is it the regular itemised billing we all get on our landlines and contract mobile phones?  Or is it something else?  I probably sound very foolish, but I am confused - Mike has said he'll consider posting it?

I ask because itemised billing (what I understand to be itemised billing) wasn't around in 1985, according to BT's website:

http://www.btplc.com/Thegroup/BTsHistory/1984onwards/1987.htm

[mb1]

What is the "itemised billing" which is being referred to?  Is it the regular itemised billing we all get on our landlines and contract mobile phones?  Or is it something else?  I probably sound very foolish, but I am confused - Mike has said he'll consider posting it?

I ask because itemised billing (what I understand to be itemised billing) wasn't around in 1985, according to BT's website:

http://www.btplc.com/Thegroup/BTsHistory/1984onwards/1987.htm

How do others read the info on this site?

Could the 1987 reference be specific to 'London'?

If it does mean the Uk, does this mean residential customers only? Mike Tesko says the billing was on a business tariff.

Oh dear...

[Alex]

It was the only reference I could find besides one the following year which refers to the permanent introduction of itemised billing, again to the City of London.  I might email BT and ask them!