Robert Boutflour Statements

[mike tesko]

Robert Boutflour Statements

[chochokeira]

Am I correct in thinking that the Bambers owned a share in Carbonfell's Farm? Just curious.

[mike tesko]

I will be posting two versions of Robert Woodwis Boutflours witness statements that he made to COLP in 1991, consisting of 35 pages - where one version is edited to include additional / altered information...

[Reader]

I suspect the farm's correct name is Carbonells Farm (although Royal Mail lists it as Carbonalls Farm).

[Roch]

1983 date on the statement? Talk about backdated paperwork!  :D

[TheBrilliantMistake]

The additional statement regarding Jeremy trying to get sheila to load bullets...

and yet sheila didn't...


I feels like a lie. It just does. It's too neat by far. He was 'seen' doing it. But she said no... so VERY convenient.


But let's suppose it's true, was Jeremy
a) Trying to get her prints on a magazine, in order to use later?
b) Checking to see if she could do it at all?


Intuition is not evidence, but I don't believe it

[chochokeira]

I suspect the farm's correct name is Carbonells Farm (although Royal Mail lists it as Carbonalls Farm).

You're right, I know that too and still called it Carbonfell's...I think it's time for me to go to bed. G'Night.

[chelmsey]

Well I personally think its disgusting!!! RB could damn well say anything he wanted could he not? Poor June was no longer around to confirm or deny these "alleged" conversations was she?

[TheBrilliantMistake]

there's a LOT of mistakes in the paperwork of all these folks... silly things like the 1983 date etc...

just a general lack of attention to detail.


I believe whilst it seems like something and nothing, it's indicative of the lax nature of EP.

From the call logs of the incident - wrong times, 'misread clocks', ambiguous notes, two bodies in kitchen, nope 1, nope 2, nope 1 - right through to taking a few days to collect a silencer.... it reeks of mess.

Of course there'll be mistakes, bound to be, and someone writing 4am, when they meant 4pm etc... but these ARE supposed to be fairly decently educated policemen and women, AND should recognise the importance of unambiguous, clear notes...

Seems none of them went on the course that year.


Boutflour's testimony seems particularly geared towards leading the reader to come to the conclusion that Jeremy was a wrong 'un. The more you read it, the less subtle it gets.

But he was a 67year old man. That's quite old to be messing with a young man's life. But if he didn't take to Jeremy, he's simply rubber stamping the "go to jail" passport for him.


 

[chelmsey]

YES and securing his childrens financial future with the Bamber familys money in the process   

[mb1]

Re 'Mistakes'
Police action logs - disclosed at the original trial - had never been seen by JB's defence counsel in any previous case and these logs appear in few cases up until the late 80s. It raises a few issues:

i) Police had not been trained to treat everything they recorded as potential evidence requiring court submission standards, hence the mistakes. (Now they spend so much time dotting i and crossing t that there's no point phoning 999...)
ii) It somewhat undermines the willful non-disclosure accusation, unless pursuing a 'double-bluff' train of thought.
iii) The 'newness' of the action logs may mean JB's defence did not give this evidence the attention it deserved. However, that it is not grounds for appeal as these documents were available at the trial.

IMO a spot check of many 1980s convictions would highlight similar mistakes, but it doesn't follow that they are deliberate forgeries or falsehoods rendering the convictions unsound. Wouldn't be happy to find Peter Sutcliffe released because some dozy officer put 4pm instead of 4am on a form. 

[lebaleb]

This statement smells fishy to me ... actually it stinks. What seems strange to me is not that June may have overheard Jeremy trying to get Shiela to load the magazine, but that she would be suspicious enough to think it sinister and that Jeremy had some alterior motive. Why didn't Boutflour challenge Jeremy about the affair?

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Re 'Mistakes'
Police action logs - disclosed at the original trial - had never been seen by JB's defence counsel in any previous case and these logs appear in few cases up until the late 80s. It raises a few issues:

i) Police had not been trained to treat everything they recorded as potential evidence requiring court submission standards, hence the mistakes. (Now they spend so much time dotting i and crossing t that there's no point phoning 999...)
ii) It somewhat undermines the willful non-disclosure accusation, unless pursuing a 'double-bluff' train of thought.
iii) The 'newness' of the action logs may mean JB's defence did not give this evidence the attention it deserved. However, that it is not grounds for appeal as these documents were available at the trial.

IMO a spot check of many 1980s convictions would highlight similar mistakes, but it doesn't follow that they are deliberate forgeries or falsehoods rendering the convictions unsound. Wouldn't be happy to find Peter Sutcliffe released because some dozy officer put 4pm instead of 4am on a form.

I agree. It's more symptomatic of policing standards at that time (although that does sound harsh - I think it's fair). 'Getting the job done' was probably their motto. But since then, it's all changed...
Although pen-pushing does seem like a waste of police time, a case like this helps to show the importance of detailed (and accurate) notes as soon as is practical.

[mike tesko]

I will be posting two versions of Robert Woodwis Boutflours witness statements that he made to COLP in 1991, consisting of 35 pages - where one version is edited to include additional / altered information...

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I will be posting the two versions of Robert Boutflours statements that he made to COLP in 1991, later on today, on a separate thread - the unedited one first, followed by the edited version. Please take time to read the full contents of both, and to note where the content has been altered or edited between both versions...

[lebaleb]

Was Agnes Low interviewed? According to Ann Eaton she was a confident of Junes. Had June been so concerned about this she would probably have mentioned it. According to AE's statement Boutflour senior was the one who checked Nevilles wallet. When Jeremy called the police about 500 pounds missing, Boutflour senior started deep breathing and AE had to massage his shoulders. He was also a good friend of DC Barlow who was branded a liar by his fellow officers.