The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[Steve_uk]

Why would he need to Steve? According to Julie, she'd known Just what he had planned for the best part of a year. She must have been sick of hearing it. Might her take on it have been something like implicitly suggesting that he go for what ever it was he was telling her he was planning, kind of like, if we get sick of arguing a point with you, we may say "Yeah Yeah Steve, whatever you say."

Julie may not have thought him capable of the crime,a position many on this forum take,yet for which Julie has been heinously vilified.

[Jane]

Julie may not have thought him capable of the crime,a position many on this forum take,yet for which Julie has been heinously vilified.

But then WE hadn't spent a whole year listening to him plan it, SHE according to her, HAD.

[susan]

curiousessex I am not for one moment saying Jeremy was whiter than white.  IMO he was not guilty of murdering his family and had never confessed that he had to Julie.  IMO JUlie was going to benefit by having all criminal charges against dropped and she sold a story which IMO was far from true  Jeremy Bamber would have sold his story of what actually happened do I think this was right of course I don't .  I don't think it is morally right for anyone to profit by selling details to a newspaper of a tragedy such as the WHF murders.  Unfortunatey this is going on all the time and I think for any family to sell a story to a newspaper to profit from their deaths is beyond words I cannot describe. I certainly don't think it was appropriate for a young lady to come out of a Court room where the love of her life and be sent to prison for life for murdering his family actually posing and smiling flashing a leg she should have acted with some decorum and quietly left the scene.

[curiousessex]

But then WE hadn't spent a whole year listening to him plan it, SHE according to her, HAD.

Julie was really in a no win situation. An ordinary girl who had been thrust into the limelight. Given what has just been said by Nigella Lawson in relation to being a witness in a high profile Crown Court hearing Julie still managed to stand before the court for examination and cross examination by professional who were representing Jeremy on a very serious charge. They would not have given Julie an easy ride..... no mercies or considerations are given when in court.

Naturally the same applied to Jeremy when under examination and cross examination. In such circumstances Jeremy is still able to offer the reply 'That is what you have got to prove'. Hardly the character traits of a weak, vulnerable, ignorant, misinformed young man. In my opinion a possible insight into a character which is hard, cold, unnerved and without empathy.

Jeremy knew if the case was not proven then he had a very big exclusive newspaper deal to look forward to.

In the end having heard the evidence before them the jury decided the case against Jeremy had been proven.

[Roch]

Jeremy had an even bigger deal with a newspaper. Jeremy knew 5 members of his adopted family had lost their lives at, according to his version of events, the hand of his unwell sister.

Yet Jeremy was prepared to sell the memory of all their innocent and lost lives for his own self gratifying profit.

What excuses could be made for such possible character traits?

Yet I cannot figure out why a guilty Jeremy would enter in to such a deal. Curious, it may be worth watching 'The money trail' video. I don't think Jeremy's cousins come out whiter than white either.

[Jane]

Julie was really in a no win situation. An ordinary girl who had been thrust into the limelight. Given what has just been said by Nigella Lawson in relation to being a witness in a high profile Crown Court hearing Julie still managed to stand before the court for examination and cross examination by professional who were representing Jeremy on a very serious charge. They would not have given Julie an easy ride..... no mercies or considerations are given when in court.

Naturally the same applied to Jeremy when under examination and cross examination. In such circumstances Jeremy is still able to offer the reply 'That is what you have got to prove'. Hardly the character traits of a weak, vulnerable, ignorant, misinformed young man. In my opinion a possible insight into a character which is hard, cold, unnerving and without empathy.

Jeremy knew if the case was not proven then he had a very big exclusive newspaper deal to look forward to.

In the end having heard the evidence before them the jury decided the case against Jeremy had been proven.

Here's where we differ. When Jeremy says those words, I see a product of his upbringing. I hear words that his father may have recounted to him on the occasions he talked about what he did in Magistrate's Court. I hear the confidence of the innocent BUT I also hear FEAR. He's standing entirely alone. His entire family has gone. His wider family have revealed what they've been hiding all their life and his ex girlfriend has sold HIS life to save HER career. I see a man shaking in his shoes but he's damned if he'll let anyone know.

[susan]

Hello curiousessex  I have been given to believe that the Defence had difficulty questioning Miss Julie due to her hysterical sobbing she seemed to recover for the prosecuation.  Jeremy Bamber in my opinion was quite an immature arrogant young man who had been brought up in such away he felt quite superior to others he did himself no favours in Court that is for sure but as I have said earlier this did not make him a mass murderer.

[lookout]

I agree with the first part,but why did he say "all is going well" in telephone call number 2..

We don't know for sure that he did say what he was alleged to have said,Steve.
If you're referring to the phone-box call,,then it's obvious that Jeremy didn't realise the full extent of the tragedy and may have referred to the police involving their findings at that particular time. Was it when the police seemed to want Jeremy out of the way ?
Steve,,you have to remember that five of his family were in the mortuary,,so why do you think Jeremy didn't want to go inside ?
If he'd have murdered them all,,he'd have already seen that they were dead,,so what difference would it have made ? Except it would have probably been more fuel for the guilters if he had have gone inside,,they'd have said he didn't turn a hair,,whereas,if the truth was known,Jeremy had NEVER seen a dead body and didn't wish to do so,,least of all his family.
It didn't bother " Hard-Hearted-Hannah though,did it ?

[Steve_uk]

Here's where we differ. When Jeremy says those words, I see a product of his upbringing. I hear words that his father may have recounted to him on the occasions he talked about what he did in Magistrate's Court. I hear the confidence of the innocent BUT I also hear FEAR. He's standing entirely alone. His entire family has gone. His wider family have revealed what they've been hiding all their life and his ex girlfriend has sold HIS life to save HER career. I see a man shaking in his shoes but he's damned if he'll let anyone know.

I thought this was a young man who began to live life with a devil-may-care attitude including sexual encounters,and who finally realized he had been rumbled by people smarter than himself.

[maggie]

Julie was really in a no win situation. An ordinary girl who had been thrust into the limelight. Given what has just been said by Nigella Lawson in relation to being a witness in a high profile Crown Court hearing Julie still managed to stand before the court for examination and cross examination by professional who were representing Jeremy on a very serious charge. They would not have given Julie an easy ride..... no mercies or considerations are given when in court.

Naturally the same applied to Jeremy when under examination and cross examination. In such circumstances Jeremy is still able to offer the reply 'That is what you have got to prove'. Hardly the character traits of a weak, vulnerable, ignorant, misinformed young man. In my opinion a possible insight into a character which is hard, cold, unnerved and without empathy.

Jeremy knew if the case was not proven then he had a very big exclusive newspaper deal to look forward to.

In the end having heard the evidence before them the jury decided the case against Jeremy had been proven.

Hi curious your portrayal of Jeremy's personality implies that you believe him to be a psychopathic/sociopathic kind of personality and I agree for Jeremy Bamber to have carried out the crime he was found guilty of he would need to have at least some type of personality disorder.  We hit a problem though when we read that JB has never shown a sign of any personality disorder or mental illness, in fact he emotes more easily than many people who are classed as normal  so I can only conclude that appearances can sometimes be deceptive. 

[curiousessex]

Yet I cannot figure out why a guilty Jeremy would enter in to such a deal. Curious, it may be worth watching 'The money trail' video. I don't think Jeremy's cousins come out whiter than white either.

I have seen the money trail video.

I do not condone what happened post Jeremy being found guilty. These are post event events and would never have occurred had the killings not happened.

The money trail video does not alter the fact Jeremy is the first person in the whole world to know something has happened a White House Farm. How does Jeremy know?

If you believe Nevill rang Jeremy then you believe Jeremy and his version of events whilst also allowing him leeway in getting the credibilities of his rstory incorrect.

If you believe the credibilities of his story regarding the alleged telephone calls are incorrect then in my opinion you need to start asking questions regarding Jeremy's self proclaimed innocence.

[Jane]

I thought this was a young man who began to live life with a devil-may-care attitude including sexual encounters,and who finally realized he had been rumbled by people smarter than himself.

He was a young man from a "comfortable " background who could afford to live a devil-may-care life. I really don't see what you have against this when one thinks of the escapades some young get up to at university. His lifestyle was no different from sons of my friends. They tend NOT to marry young and hopefully sow enough wild oats pre marriage to satisfy that craving and settle down in their late 20's.

[lookout]

I thought this was a young man who began to live life with a devil-may-care attitude including sexual encounters,and who finally realized he had been rumbled by people smarter than himself.

Yes,,this is how Jeremy lived his life,Steve,,but unfortunately he wasn't up to speed when it came to the fact that his devil-may-care attitude could come to a stop,not by people who were smarter than he,,but by the craft and cunning of those who he thought were members of his family as well as being his friends who were on his side. As sure as Hell,he'll have learned a lot about people now.

[susan]

april quite right I have many young farmers from comfortable backgrouds in my area and this is exactly what they do sow wild oats all over Scotland then marry when they are maybe 30 have children then the cycle starts again.  This is the way they are brought up.

[curiousessex]

Hi curious your portrayal of Jeremy's personality implies that you believe him to be a psychopathic/sociopathic kind of personality and I agree for Jeremy Bamber to have carried out the crime he was found guilty of he would need to have at least some type of personality disorder.  We hit a problem though when we read that JB has never shown a sign of any personality disorder or mental illness, in fact he emotes more easily than many people who are classed as normal  so I can only conclude that appearances can sometimes be deceptive.

That may be the case but I am not qualified to say one way or another.

However, it is the case that all psychopathic / sociopathic individuals remain undiagnosed as such until the time as they have been diagnosed. Surely they do not suddenly become psychopathic / sociopathic but have always been so but have remained undiagnosed.

Given the problem what has emoting got to do with psychopathic / sociopathic tendencies?

A question .... would Adolf Hitler (a man who emoted so well a whole nation where inspired by him and elected him to power by the democratic vote) be classed as a psychopath / sociopath?