The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[grahameb]

Jeremy placed her fingers on the gun after the first shot. Or it could have been immediately after death.

What, just one and then wiping his prints off. What was the point of that? "Oh I'd better place one of Sheila's fingers on the gun. That'll convince them.

[tyler]

Rifle WASN'T wiped at all! There were fingerprints on it but were smeared and so couldn't be lifted. This could have been due to all the handling of rifle by EP or simply due to the gun oil on the rifle,the latter being the reason why Kurt Cobain's prints on his suicide weapon could not be identified,instead coming back as 'inconclusive'.

[Jane]

I have tried and tried to get this point over to Steve but I bet it STILL not the last time he ties to peddle this myth  !!

Caroline, Steve is far more interested in what HE has to say to us than in anything we may say to him.

[grahameb]

Rifle WASN'T wiped at all! There were fingerprints on it but were smeared and so couldn't be lifted. This could have been due to all the handling of rifle by EP or simply due to the gun oil on the rifle,the latter being the reason why Kurt Cobain's prints on his suicide weapon could not be identified,instead coming back as 'inconclusive'.

I bet it was? If there was gun oil on it and Sheila had used it the gun oil would have been on her.

[Adam]

The jury would have discussed this to
 
Reasons for Neville not to phone Jeremy -

Jeremy may not answer the phone. If he does it may not be for a long time. It was 3am. Jeremy himself said in the interview transcripts he slept 'like a log' that night.

Jeremy will not be over for a long time. He has to get dressed & drive over.

Neville is putting his son Jeremy in danger. Sheila has gone 'crazy' with a gun.

Neville was big, strong & had been in the army. As the head of the family his pride will make him want to resolve the situation. As Jeremy said, Neville would want to keep things private. If Jeremy knew Neville liked to keep things private, why did he phone the police ?

Jeremy & Sheila did not get on. Jeremy telling the police on the night 'I don't get on with her at all. I don't like her & she does'nt like me'. Jeremy also told the police on the night Sheila is a 'nutter'.

Jeremy has said himself that in 1985 he did not understand Sheila's illness. Neville would have known this & knew Jeremy may be insensitive in a serious situation.

Several people have testified that Jeremy hated his parents. Neville would be aware of this. Would Jeremy be bothered enough to drive over quickly, or drive over at all ?  The police have testified that Jeremy was driving very slowly to WHF.

Having Jeremy there would make the situation worse. Barbara Wilson said there was often a bad atmosphere in the house when Jeremy was present.

Neville answered the phone that evening before 10am. He was apparently short & the caller said it sounded like she had interrupted an argument. Had Jeremy been upsetting people ? If so it is doubtful Nevill will ask him back over a few hours later.

Having more people in the house may make Sheila more 'crazy'.

Jeremy did not have a front door key (as far as I know). Was a 'crazy' Sheila going to let Neville answer the front door ? Or was Jeremy going to shout through the letterbox !

Jeremy was not known for being especially brave or macho. Certainly no more so than Neville. As mentioned Jeremy was seen driving very slowly to WHF.

According to Barbara Wilson,  Neville knew Jeremy had broken into the caravan site & stole nearly £1,000. Neville & Jeremy's relationship at the time would have been very poor.

Jeremy claimed several years later that there was proof Neville phoned the police. The EP have never said they got a call from Neville. However if Jeremy is correct the police would be more experienced in dealing with this sort of situation. So Neville would not need to call Jeremy.

There is no time for Neville to make a phone call. Dial up phones are slow & the phone numbers in Essex are long. Jeremy may not answer for a long time.

Although Neville was proud, he was not stupid. In this serious situation if he was going to use the phone it would be to dial 999. Why ring Jeremy if the police were coming over ?

In the heat of the moment it is doubtful Neville will think 'let me phone Jeremy who will sort everything out'.

Jeremy had worked a long day at the farm. Tomorrow would be another long day. Neville knew Jeremy needed his rest.

Neville & Sheila got on well. If Neville could not contain her, Jeremy certainly could not.

[Adam]

Good morning Susan.

You said yesterday you had not read this post. Although at the time you responded to it. Anyway I have put it up again.

[susan]

Adam so kind of you and considerate to put up your posts a second time for me.  Must go to a dark room and rest

[susan]

Adam and by the way I did respond to you yesterday about your post and said they had such a profound effect on me I could not rememeber reading them or indeed responding

[grahameb]

Good morning Susan.

You said yesterday you had not read this post. Although at the time you responded to it. Anyway I have put it up again.

That's a relief. I thought you had a stammer?

[susan]

Morning Grahame  HaHaHa  no Adam does repeats like the BBC I am so lucky to be the special one getting his posts twice

[Steve_uk]

?? are you serious? He would plan all that and still make the mistake of telling his girlfriend everything and leaving a silencer  in the house for the relatives to find - why on earth would he put her prints on the shotgun when it was not used in the final shootings?

There is evidence from the Andrew Hunter book draft that more than one weapon was used. Jeremy had very little experience of the psychology of girls,and considered that he had done enough with the Osea Road robbery and the telephone calls to tie Julie in as an accessory.

[Steve_uk]

steve I think for a man who is supposed to be educated your choice of words is appalling.  What is your personal problem here as I have said so many times Jeremy is serving life for murder what more do you want.

Justice for Colin for one thing who has the right to know the truth. As does Julie.

[Steve_uk]

I don't think you have either. If there were no fingerprints on the gun then it must have been the police who wiped them off. Why? Because (1) there was only one of Sheila's and one of Jeremy's. If Jeremy wanted to pin the murder on Sheila it would have been an easy matter for him to wipe his off and print hers on the gun. (2) He had been handling the gun that night and had admitted so doing. Therefore what would be the point of wiping his prints off. (3) There was one other print on the gun, that of a police officer. Just one mind. Now that points to the police as having wiped the gun of prints. Now why would they have done that you may ask? Theory: Because they had handled the gun much more than they confessed to have done. Just ponder the first and second points and give me an answer to them.

Well you're ignoring the fact that had Sheila shot the twins,then Sheila,then stood over Nevill in the kitchen threatening him with a gun and forcing him to end the call to Jeremy (a Scott Lomax theory but I digress)not to mention the fight for the control of the rifle Sheila's prints should be all over the gun,as should Jeremy's if he had been out shooting rabbits. If  the Police wanted to wipe the gun then why didn't they wipe all the smudged prints off when it was in their possession and put themselves in the clear?

The most likely scenario is that Jeremy panicked when the glove came off in the fight with Nevill(Julie's story),being under the influence of cannabis and cocaine(my theory)not being able to work out just where his prints had made an indenture  in the confusion of the night and so had to wipe everything off so that Nevill's prints didn't obfuscate his scenario and he could then ensure that Sheila's at least were left as he ascended the staircase from the kitchen to the vicinity of her  bedroom..

[Steve_uk]

How is Andrew Hunter's book evidence? Just because someone says something, it doesn't make it evidence!! Errm - what is 'the psychology of girls' please enlighten us with your obvious expertise on this little known phenomenon??

His ballistics evidence is worth reading about the bullets which I for one found informative for someone who  is not conversant in this area of expertise. I do know a little about the psychology of girls and they can be more devious than teenage boys and a lot harder to read.

[Steve_uk]

The gun wasn't wiped (for the 50th time) and why would the police want to wipe off 'smudged' prints?? Why were Sheila and Nevill's prints on the shot gun? According to you, he wipes the rifle but misses a couple of clear prints of his own and engineer's a print of Sheila's. Then (in his coke and cannabis induced stupor) he gets the shot gun and engineers a couple of prints from both Sheila and Nevill but leaves none of his own? What part of the grand plan did this fall under? 

I think you're confusing two guns: the alleged one left on the settle and the one under Nevill's bed. Maybe Mike can clarify.