The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[gringo]

Thanks. Thought it must have been those silly police officers.

Pulling legs at a crime scene. Sack the lot of them.

It was pointed out to you that EP provably moved things in the crime scene .
     No doubt you can tell us exactly what Jeremy was thinking as he pulled Sheila down by the legs?
     Sorry to say Adam, but we've already got Steve UK on here to entertain us with his speculative and presumptious theories; the fascinating insights into the thoughts and workings of Jeremy's mind and you're just the low rent version

[Jane]

It was pointed out to you that EP provably moved things in the crime scene .
     No doubt you can tell us exactly what Jeremy was thinking as he pulled Sheila down by the legs?
     Sorry to say Adam, but we've already got Steve UK on here to entertain us with his speculative and presumptious theories; the fascinating insights into the thoughts and workings of Jeremy's mind and you're just the low rent version

Gringo, HOW eloquent :D

[gringo]

Thanks Gringo, is it possible for someone to be beaten about the head with some force (as we are led to believe) and yet leave no hair, blood or tissue traces on the rifle and around the location of the attack?

It's also the lack of any paper trail pertaining to this.
    As you imply in your question , it would not be possible to leave no trace so why was this not supported with forensics? Did the results perhaps not fit with the story being told ?

[grahameb]

518. To decide whether we considered that the interests of justice required that we heard Mr Ismail's evidence, we first had regard to the evidence that it was said that he could give. From the blood staining he concluded that following the second and fatal shot Sheila Caffell was lying almost flat on her back with her head propped against a bedside cabinet. For her then to slide to be found in the position depicted in the photographs would have required the downward force to be greater than the friction of her body against the floor. In his opinion this simply was not possible as there would only be the weight of the head providing the downward force. Therefore he concluded that an additional force would have been necessary. It could not have come from Sheila Caffell since the second shot would have been instantly fatal and thus she must have been moved by someone else, for example with her legs being pulled. He also considered that the weight and the friction between her skin and her nightdress was likely to have been less than the weight and friction between the nightdress and the carpet. Therefore, he would expect movement of the body within the nightdress rather than the body and clothing sliding together across the carpet. He pointed out that the photographs demonstrated this effect at the back of the nightdress with the nightdress staying rucked up in its original position. However the front of the nightdress had not demonstrated this effect. Accordingly Mr Ismail concluded that the nightdress had been pulled down after Sheila Caffell slid into her final position. Since on the evidence, she was dead by this stage, Mr Ismail concluded that some one else had arranged her nightdress.519. Having studied with care the statement of Mr Ismail, we concluded that this was expert evidence capable of belief. Indeed if it had been given and if cross-examination had not revealed flaws in it (which we consider unlikely bearing in mind that there was no application to call any expert evidence to contradict it), had we been on a jury hearing such evidence we might well have been very impressed by it. That evidence in itself could have led to a conclusion of guilt quite apart from the many other matters relied upon by the prosecution at trial. However, we were not satisfied that evidence of this kind was not available at the date of trial if the prosecution had sought to explore these matters and more importantly we thought that Mr Turner was right in his submission that it was very difficult to gauge with sufficient certainty the reaction of a jury to it particularly when we could not judge it against all the related evidence in the trial, which we had not heard.

In actual fact it is highly likely that the police moved her body. Ann Eaton stated that a policeman informed her that Sheila was on the bed together with June next to her with the rifle between her. To be honest the police messed around with the crime scene so much it is very difficult to tell what was moved and what wasn't. But I personally believe that Sheila was moved and that the cops are covering for each other. Which they usually do.

[Jane]

It's also the lack of any paper trail pertaining to this.
    As you imply in your question , it would not be possible to leave no trace so why was this not supported with forensics? Did the results perhaps not fit with the story being told ?

I wonder how many more results fall into the same category.

[grahameb]

Thanks. Thought it must have been those silly police officers.

Pulling legs at a crime scene. Sack the lot of them.

I believe  if Ann Eaton is telling the truth about Sheila and June being found on the bed that Sheila was moved from the bed to the floor. And because Jeremy saw two photos of police officers at the scene "horsing about" One urinating against the greenhouse. Another waving some kind of flag or banner out of the skylight in the roof. then the official crime scene photos cannot be believed at all.

[gringo]

I wonder how many more results fall into the same category.

Quite likely the entire contents of the initial investigation SC/688/85

[lookout]

I believe  if Ann Eaton is telling the truth about Sheila and June being found on the bed that Sheila was moved from the bed to the floor. And because Jeremy saw two photos of police officers at the scene "horsing about" One urinating against the greenhouse. Another waving some kind of flag or banner out of the skylight in the roof. then the official crime scene photos cannot be believed at all.

So much for respect of the dead ! What a pity all that didn't come out at the trial.

[Jane]

Quite likely the entire contents of the initial investigation SC/688/85

The possibility had crossed my mind

[gringo]

In actual fact it is highly likely that the police moved her body. Ann Eaton stated that a policeman informed her that Sheila was on the bed together with June next to her with the rifle between her. To be honest the police messed around with the crime scene so much it is very difficult to tell what was moved and what wasn't. But I personally believe that Sheila was moved and that the cops are covering for each other. Which they usually do.

What's the betting that Adam refuses to engage with your point, or any of the many other points raised by others  which clearly demonstrate police tampering of the scene, and instead gives us another ripping yarn which ignores the known facts and instead relies upon supposition and conjecture 

[susan]

Gringo supposition, conjecture and nonsense

[susan]

Grahame wonder why the police moved Sheila off the bed onto the floor and wonder why Sheila was on the bed next to June in the first place none of it makes sense to me.  Police were totally disgusting behaving so disrespectfully wonder what else they did immature men by the sound of it lacking in brain cells.

[tyler]

EP later admitted pulling Sheila's nightdress down to save her dignity. For those that do not believe that EP moved and staged Sheila's body,they should read (I think) it is Collins statement. He and another officer stated that when they first saw SC's body,her head was in a different position in relation to the bedside cabinet and they don't recall ANY rifle on or near her body. They raised this matter at the debriefing. Regarding Nevill's injuries,I'm not certain why Adam relates his damaged jaw,larnyx etc to any beating. These injuries were caused by gunshot. Any 'beating' with the rifle or any other object caused linear lacerations to Nevill's head.

[lookout]

Who was it that told JM that Sheila and June were found on the bed ? Ann Eaton,or the police ?

[susan]

Hi tyler  good post I did wonder how Nevill got the injuries to his jaw and I think you have explained this very well.  Adam likes to make matters as gruesome as he can and is trying to shock the forum with his graphic details.  Not working we have heard it all before.