Author Topic: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.  (Read 115282 times)

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Offline susan

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1980 on: December 16, 2013, 11:12:AM »
Grahame when the police came crashing in at WHF they did not treat it as a crime scene as it was 4 murders one suicide.  Nothing would have been preserved as such the whole thing was a total shambles even burning carpets etc.  I am of the opinion the only people who know what happened is EP and they aint for telling :'(

Offline lookout

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1981 on: December 16, 2013, 11:18:AM »
Grahame when the police came crashing in at WHF they did not treat it as a crime scene as it was 4 murders one suicide.  Nothing would have been preserved as such the whole thing was a total shambles even burning carpets etc.  I am of the opinion the only people who know what happened is EP and they aint for telling :'(



Hi Susan,,it's very rare for the police to admit to their own mistakes. So disgusting, as it's cost a man his life while they're busy thinking about their pensions.

Offline lookout

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1982 on: December 16, 2013, 11:39:AM »
It surely would be easy to tell if the weapon had been used to beat Nevill - blood? Hair? Tissue evidence linked to Nevill? No? Odd!!




The hair on the silencer mysteriously vanished,Caroline. That,,for a start should have been questioned as to why it was handled in such a way that the evidence " escaped ".

Offline maggie

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1983 on: December 16, 2013, 11:43:AM »
It surely would be easy to tell if the weapon had been used to beat Nevill - blood? Hair? Tissue evidence linked to Nevill? No? Odd!!
You would certainly think so Caroline.  Neil's injuries were profound, there surely must have been evidence left on the weapon?  If Nevill fell on his face when unconscious he would have been a dead weight and could have done all sorts of damage.
Knew someone who fainted at a bus stop after giving blood and fell against the stone shelter, she broke her jaw and knocked all her teeth out, so it's not an impossibility something similar happened to Neil imo.

Offline maggie

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1984 on: December 16, 2013, 12:40:PM »
I agree, I don't think there was a 'struggle' i the kitchen or that Nevill was beaten with the rifle. There wouldn't have only been blood and tissue on the rifle but there would have been blood spatter all over the kitchen!!
The blood spatter would have been all over whoever beat him as well.

Offline Nickos

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1985 on: December 16, 2013, 03:20:PM »
No, that's what you would do with the full benefit of hindsight!! Of course it's NOT irrelevant that there is no evidence to prove that the calls did NOT take place. If all documents were released, who knows what could be proven? It's hard to win when the other side is playing with a loaded deck. I'd have thought the guilty side would be asking for ALL evidence/documents to be released to the defence, after-all if he is guilty, there will be nothing in there of any use, there will be no case to argue, you can all re-tighten your already smug smiles, gloat until your hearts are content and we can ask the last person on the forum to switch off the lights!!

No, that's what you would do with the full benefit of hindsight!!

No, that's what I would do if it happened. I would simply not let anyone (never mind someone emotionally disturbed) alone with a loaded gun - not for a second. it's almost impossible to believe anyone would including yourself.

Apologies for being so direct, but would you leave someone alone with a gun with other loved ones in the house and go off to make phone calls at 3am?


Hi Caroline - just catching up.

I can’t find your reply to my question above.

Is it possible you could answer it?

Thanks.
Reality Check - What evidence is there to free JB? Answers on a very small postcard!

Offline Jane

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1986 on: December 16, 2013, 04:12:PM »
No, that's what you would do with the full benefit of hindsight!!

No, that's what I would do if it happened. I would simply not let anyone (never mind someone emotionally disturbed) alone with a loaded gun - not for a second. it's almost impossible to believe anyone would including yourself.

Apologies for being so direct, but would you leave someone alone with a gun with other loved ones in the house and go off to make phone calls at 3am?


Hi Caroline - just catching up.

I can’t find your reply to my question above.

Is it possible you could answer it?

Thanks.





May I ask how you would have acted had you NOT known just how mentally disturbed the person was? Sheila was an adult. Her doctors weren't permitted to divulge details of her illness to anyone. It may be possible that June and Nevill's minds wouldn't allow then to contemplate what the full extent of her illness might be. You're correct in that we need the FULL benefit of hindsight, but as yet we don't have it. NOR did they.

Offline gringo

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1987 on: December 16, 2013, 05:12:PM »
Sorry  Lookout, I wasn't talking about the silencer. The premiss is that Nevill was beaten by the rifle butt, that being the case there would have been blood, hair and tissue matching Nevill's type all over it. But no such evidence was discussed at the trial.
That's an interesting observation ,Caroline, especially as the rifle was sent for forensic testing .
      It begs the question as to why there is no documentation referring to testing the rifle butt for any evidence but then to rely on that scenario in court . It doesn't ring true that the prosecution would fail to back up their proposed scenario with easily acquired forensics.
     

Offline Adam

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1988 on: December 16, 2013, 05:37:PM »
518. To decide whether we considered that the interests of justice required that we heard Mr Ismail's evidence, we first had regard to the evidence that it was said that he could give. From the blood staining he concluded that following the second and fatal shot Sheila Caffell was lying almost flat on her back with her head propped against a bedside cabinet. For her then to slide to be found in the position depicted in the photographs would have required the downward force to be greater than the friction of her body against the floor. In his opinion this simply was not possible as there would only be the weight of the head providing the downward force. Therefore he concluded that an additional force would have been necessary. It could not have come from Sheila Caffell since the second shot would have been instantly fatal and thus she must have been moved by someone else, for example with her legs being pulled. He also considered that the weight and the friction between her skin and her nightdress was likely to have been less than the weight and friction between the nightdress and the carpet. Therefore, he would expect movement of the body within the nightdress rather than the body and clothing sliding together across the carpet. He pointed out that the photographs demonstrated this effect at the back of the nightdress with the nightdress staying rucked up in its original position. However the front of the nightdress had not demonstrated this effect. Accordingly Mr Ismail concluded that the nightdress had been pulled down after Sheila Caffell slid into her final position. Since on the evidence, she was dead by this stage, Mr Ismail concluded that some one else had arranged her nightdress.519. Having studied with care the statement of Mr Ismail, we concluded that this was expert evidence capable of belief. Indeed if it had been given and if cross-examination had not revealed flaws in it (which we consider unlikely bearing in mind that there was no application to call any expert evidence to contradict it), had we been on a jury hearing such evidence we might well have been very impressed by it. That evidence in itself could have led to a conclusion of guilt quite apart from the many other matters relied upon by the prosecution at trial. However, we were not satisfied that evidence of this kind was not available at the date of trial if the prosecution had sought to explore these matters and more importantly we thought that Mr Turner was right in his submission that it was very difficult to gauge with sufficient certainty the reaction of a jury to it particularly when we could not judge it against all the related evidence in the trial, which we had not heard.

'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Adam

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1989 on: December 16, 2013, 05:39:PM »
Mentioned yesterday by me from the 2002 appeal verdict.

Did Jeremy or the police pull Sheila's legs after the second gun shot & before the photos ?

Or was it Crispy ? ? ?
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 05:52:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline gringo

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1990 on: December 16, 2013, 05:49:PM »
Mentioned yesterday by me from the 2002 appeal verdict.

Did Jeremy or the police pull Sheila's legs after the second gun shot & before the photos ?
The police were demonstrably guilty of some manipulation of the crime scene as shown by the photographic evidence and their own half arsed explanations for the discrepancies. Given this do you not consider it a possibility that EP moved Sheila's body?
    They are, after all, the only proven manipulators of the crime scene .
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 05:50:PM by gringo »

Offline Jane

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1991 on: December 16, 2013, 05:52:PM »
Mentioned yesterday by me from the 2002 appeal verdict.

Did Jeremy or the police pull Sheila's legs after the second gun shot & before the photos ?



How could Jeremy have done ANYTHING to ANY body? If we may imagine a murderer totally oblivious to the sights, sounds, smells and tastes of multiple deaths, this murderer could not be said to be of sound mind. 20 or so psychiatrists have ascertained this is not the case with Jeremy......................which leaves the police.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 05:53:PM by April »

Offline Adam

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1992 on: December 16, 2013, 05:59:PM »
Thanks. Thought it must have been those silly police officers.

Pulling legs at a crime scene. Sack the lot of them.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 06:00:PM by Adam »
'Only I know what really happened that night'.

Offline Jane

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1993 on: December 16, 2013, 06:09:PM »
Thanks. Thought it must have been those silly police officers.

Pulling legs at a crime scene. Sack the lot of them.



Adam, I get the feeling that one or two of us would quite like to do the same to you :D

Offline susan

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Re: The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.
« Reply #1994 on: December 16, 2013, 06:29:PM »
Adam why are you acting so childish again I thought you had given that up and was going to behave like a grown up.