The bedroom phone, phone calls & Neville.

[grahameb]

Is it not strange that someone unpracticed in the art of killing could, at his first attempt, become a smooth enough operator, to give the appearance of NOT being a "smooth operator."

Even  a soldier could not act like a "smooth" operator.

[Caroline R]

You could be right. Or you could be wrong !

I  could - as could you. Which is why I hate scenario's!! Point is, the case against Jeremy rests on two main issues - the silencer (which if you read up on, you will see there are some VERY suspicious discrepancies in both statements and forensic findings) and Julie Mugfords testimony which even the judge was weary of!! The jury were 10/2 and probably less given the way juries operate and much of the evidence was hidden from the defence. Do you think that's a fair trial?

[Adam]

Unfortunately there is absolutely nothing to support all that. It remains at best just speculation in order to satisfy your own theory of what happened. We need facts and facts alone I'm afraid.

There was evidence.

June was shot in bed. Neville was shot in the bedroom & in the kitchen. Neville was beaten in the kitchen, either before or after death. Sheila was found in the main bedroom & the twins in bed.

Scenarios can be thought up as to how this occurred to support both Jeremy or Sheila. Will any new appeal look at the different possible scenarios and decide on the most likely ?

[Caroline R]

There was evidence.

June was shot in bed. Neville was shot in the bedroom & in the kitchen. Neville was beaten in the kitchen, either before or after death. Sheila was found in the main bedroom & the twins in bed.

Scenarios can be thought up as to how this occurred to support both Jeremy or Sheila. Will any new appeal look at the different possible scenarios and decide on the most likely ?

No.

[Caroline R]

There was evidence.

June was shot in bed. Neville was shot in the bedroom & in the kitchen. Neville was beaten in the kitchen, either before or after death. Sheila was found in the main bedroom & the twins in bed.

Scenarios can be thought up as to how this occurred to support both Jeremy or Sheila. Will any new appeal look at the different possible scenarios and decide on the most likely ?

That it was Jeremy? What evidence?

[Adam]

I  could - as could you. Which is why I hate scenario's!! Point is, the case against Jeremy rests on two main issues - the silencer (which if you read up on, you will see there are some VERY suspicious discrepancies in both statements and forensic findings) and Julie Mugfords testimony which even the judge was weary of!! The jury were 10/2 and probably less given the way juries operate and much of the evidence was hidden from the defence. Do you think that's a fair trial?

Mugford was not called to give evidence at Bambers appeal hearing Although she had travelled over from abroad. So assume the judges were satisfied & Bambers team had nothing to get their teeth into. They must of had the same 'ring of truth' opinion the 1985 defence team had. She has never retracted a word of her statement.

The testing of the silencer at the time showed it was Sheila's blood, or a combination of other household members. Either way the silencer was on the rifle. Didn't another test a few years later also show the same results ?

[Caroline R]

Mugford was not called to give evidence at Bambers appeal hearing Although she had travelled over from abroad. So assume the judges were satisfied & Bambers team had nothing to get their teeth into. They must of had the same 'ring of truth' opinion the 1985 defence team had. She has never retracted a word of her statement.

The testing of the silencer at the time showed it was Sheila's blood, or a combination of other household members. Either way the silencer was on the rifle. Didn't another test a few years later also show the same results ?

I  think that would be admitting to 'perjury' But she stated in The News of the World article that Jeremy NEVER admitted to her that he carried out the murders and yet she told Colin that Jeremy said HE left the scene via the kitchen window. She also changed the time of the phone call she received from Jeremy and LIED about the cheque book fraud incident.

The testing did NOT show it was Sheila's blood at all - the sample tested contained an enzyme (AK1) as did Sheila BUT so did Robert Boutflour who shared the same blood group. The silencer was handled by at LEAST 5 people prior to being tested and would NOT be allowed into evidence by today's standards!!

[tyler]

Hi Adam. In a previous post you suggested that Sheila was led into the main bedroom to be killed? Is this plausible? Tests showed she wasn't drugged. Would she really not have fought for her life? Besides,if JB had killed her prior to his telephone call to police,can you perhaps explain to us why she was not found to be in a state of rigor mortis when discovered by EP (the other victims were) and also the fact that the first officers on the scene stated that Sheila had blood running from the corners of her mouth? Does this not suggest to you that she died much much later than the other victims,at a time when JB couldn't possibly have been present?

[grahameb]

There was evidence.

June was shot in bed. Neville was shot in the bedroom & in the kitchen. Neville was beaten in the kitchen, either before or after death. Sheila was found in the main bedroom & the twins in bed.

Scenarios can be thought up as to how this occurred to support both Jeremy or Sheila. Will any new appeal look at the different possible scenarios and decide on the most likely ?

I'm afraid I don't do senarios, as they are most likely to be wrong? There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that Jeremy crept upstairs. No forensic. Nothing. Or that Sheila was lead anywhere. Where is the evidence for that? It is pure speculation by some very imaginative person.

[Adam]

There have been claims that rigor mortis is visible in photographs of Nevill, June and the twins, and that those of Sheila Caffell show no rigor or lividity. This claim does not seem ever to have been adduced by a medical professional rather than a layperson.


Officers observed that wet blood had pooled in the crook of Sheila’s right arm. Congealed blood had also formed in the aperture of the lower neck wound. One possibility is that when Sheila was moved by officers at the scene, this plug became detached, and allowed blood accumulated within Sheila’s neck, viscous but not yet congealed, to run thickly beyond the entrance of the wound.

[Caroline R]

There have been claims that rigor mortis is visible in photographs of Nevill, June and the twins, and that those of Sheila Caffell show no rigor or lividity. This claim does not seem ever to have been adduced by a medical professional rather than a layperson.


Officers observed that wet blood had pooled in the crook of Sheila’s right arm. Congealed blood had also formed in the aperture of the lower neck wound. One possibility is that when Sheila was moved by officers at the scene, this plug became detached, and allowed blood accumulated within Sheila’s neck, viscous but not yet congealed, to run thickly beyond the entrance of the wound.

If Sheila had rigor, how did the police manage to just move her hand in order to take the picture of the bloodstain on her nightdress?

[Adam]

There are different scenarios which could be made to explain the state of the house when the police broke in.

The trouble with any Sheila scenario is there has to always be at least a 5 minute period of enough calm where Neville was able to make two phone calls during the chaos. The 80's dial up phones were slow & the phone numbers in that area had lots of digits. Jeremy may not have answered for a long period if he was sleeping. The police phone call may have taken a while, Neville having to give his name, address etc.

[Caroline R]

There was not much stage managing was there ?

The twins & June were shot in bed. There was a big mess in the kitchen. Putting an open bible next to Sheila would not take long. Once everyone was dead Jeremy, if he was the killer would have had all the time he needed to do any stage managing.

If Jeremy could fire one shot into the twins, he could fire several shots. It would back up the 'shes a nutter' & 'gone crazy' quotes he gave the police later.

If Jeremy put the open bible next to Sheila why is there no bloodstain on the page that was resting in (what would have been) a large 'wet' pool of blood when it was placed there?

[Jane]

There have been claims that rigor mortis is visible in photographs of Nevill, June and the twins, and that those of Sheila Caffell show no rigor or lividity. This claim does not seem ever to have been adduced by a medical professional rather than a layperson.


Officers observed that wet blood had pooled in the crook of Sheila’s right arm. Congealed blood had also formed in the aperture of the lower neck wound. One possibility is that when Sheila was moved by officers at the scene, this plug became detached, and allowed blood accumulated within Sheila’s neck, viscous but not yet congealed, to run thickly beyond the entrance of the wound.

 
We could go on speculating till the cows come home, couldn't we? My late partner was always called as the expert witness whenever there was a dispute in his field of expertise. The other side usually caved in and settled out of court when they came up against him. Was he always right?...............or did he just put up a stronger argument? What would have happened had he been challenged? After all, his was just HIS opinion.

[Caroline R]

There are different scenarios which could be made to explain the state of the house when the police broke in.

The trouble with any Sheila scenario is there has to always be at least a 5 minute period of enough calm where Neville was able to make two phone calls during the chaos. The 80's dial up phones were slow & the phone numbers in that area had lots of digits. Jeremy may not have answered for a long period if he was sleeping. The police phone call may have taken a while, Neville having to give his name, address etc.

If ifs and buts again!!