Does Jones slip here??????

[Steve_uk]

"You are the sole beneficiary of the estate and have become a very rich man,Mr. Bamber. But don't sell up just yet or people may become suspicious.."

[Caroline R]

..no feelings for the dead,no remorse expressed for leaving the gun out on the table,settle or whatever Jeremy's cover story was. Nothing except a visit to Basil Cock's that afternoon to discuss finances.

How do you know?

[Steve_uk]

How do you know?

It's one of the first things one would think of and admonish oneself for one's careless behaviour,but I haven't heard anywhere that Jeremy expressed any remorse.

[Caroline R]

It's one of the first things one would think of and admonish oneself for one's careless behaviour,but I haven't heard anywhere that Jeremy expressed any remorse.

And who would you hear that from? You think his relatives would mention it? Julie maybe? Or perhaps Stan Jones? Why on earth would you expect to hear tales of admonishment from people who were intent on convicting him of murder? Not really in their best interests to have him seen as 'human' now is it? But also not really fair or factual to say it didn't happen JUST because you haven't read it anywhere!!

[Jane]

Why telephone Julie at all? It's the question DS Jones asked Jeremy on 10 September 1985 and the lame answer was "..to tell her what was going on". In fact Jeremy said "all is going well",then realizing that Julie may not have been alone and therefore capable of being overheard added "Something is wrong at the Farm". It's damning that Jeremy has to telephone Julie in a vain attempt to rope her in as an accessory,when it's evident to me at that point the mission is accomplished and all lie dead at White House Farm.

As for Jeremy's stalling tactics,it's also pretty clear that inexperienced Police Constables called out in the middle of the night to a desolate farmhouse are not going to rush the place but call for reinforcements and take any overtime,especially when Jeremy erroneously informs them there's a nutter on the loose who had recently indulged in target practice..

We seem to have a discrepancy here, Steve. WHY would he say "All is going well" when according to you, they were already dead? I don't find it at all damning that he should call her, but I find it highly suspicious that we only have HER word for what is said.

As for what you call "Jeremy's stalling tactics" - Hey, Steve, make your mind up, one moment, he's a nonenity, the next he's powerful enough to play mind games with the whole of Essex constabulary - I think it highly unlikely that EP would send out a band of rookies to a potential gun crime. The mistakes they made were theirs and theirs alone.

[lookout]

"You are the sole beneficiary of the estate and have become a very rich man,Mr. Bamber. But don't sell up just yet or people may become suspicious.."

Steve,,Jeremy wasn't the sole beneficiary.

[Jane]

He also makes a beeline for Julie at the first opportunity that morning at Bourtree Cottage and engineers a rendez-vous upstairs alone,on more than one occasion according to Ann Eaton. It's clear at this early stage that Julie is very much part of his plans..

Steve, you fail to realize - although it really doesn't surprise me - that at that point, Julie was the only person he could turn to. It's more than clear from things they've said, that his parents' relatives had never considered Jeremy to be THEIR relative and as such there was little emotional involvement. You repeatedly bleat on about the one birthday card Jeremy sent Ann, but it may have escaped your notice that as the elder cousin, the gesture should have been initiated by Ann, at her parents' behest. It appears it never was. Thus, in a moment when he was bereft, Julie was, sadly, the ONLY person with whom he felt any emotional link, and it's more than reasonable that he should want her there. As for her being part of his plans, she was his only continuity. As to why they eventually parted, I imagine it had to do with that at a time when Jeremy needed her support, she became demanding of his.

[grahameb]

We seem to have a discrepancy here, Steve. WHY would he say "All is going well" when according to you, they were already dead? I don't find it at all damning that he should call her, but I find it highly suspicious that we only have HER word for what is said.

As for what you call "Jeremy's stalling tactics" - Hey, Steve, make your mind up, one moment, he's a nonenity, the next he's powerful enough to play mind games with the whole of Essex constabulary - I think it highly unlikely that EP would send out a band of rookies to a potential gun crime. The mistakes they made were theirs and theirs alone.

Because her (Mugford) "whole" testimony was built upon the "hitman" story that's why. Unfortunately this question was not asked in court. And of course as you say, he could only say that if he'd hired a hitman and knew they were all dead.
This of course scuppers Steve's other story that Bamber did it and then faked a phonecall to his cottage. He can't hold both accounts to be true, simply because of the timings.

[Steve_uk]

We seem to have a discrepancy here, Steve. WHY would he say "All is going well" when according to you, they were already dead? I don't find it at all damning that he should call her, but I find it highly suspicious that we only have HER word for what is said.

As for what you call "Jeremy's stalling tactics" - Hey, Steve, make your mind up, one moment, he's a nonenity, the next he's powerful enough to play mind games with the whole of Essex constabulary - I think it highly unlikely that EP would send out a band of rookies to a potential gun crime. The mistakes they made were theirs and theirs alone.

He's a nonentity like David Bain,John Cannan and many others. Of course all was going well,because he had successfully completed his mission,and this confirms in my mind Julie's story when Jeremy had speculated on murder in the past. What the Defence can't quibble about is that there was a telephone call in the middle of the night from Jeremy,a material fact vouched for by other witnesses at the Lewisham flat,which is why it all looks so black for Jeremy.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, you fail to realize - although it really doesn't surprise me - that at that point, Julie was the only person he could turn to. It's more than clear from things they've said, that his parents' relatives had never considered Jeremy to be THEIR relative and as such there was little emotional involvement. You repeatedly bleat on about the one birthday card Jeremy sent Ann, but it may have escaped your notice that as the elder cousin, the gesture should have been initiated by Ann, at her parents' behest. It appears it never was. Thus, in a moment when he was bereft, Julie was, sadly, the ONLY person with whom he felt any emotional link, and it's more than reasonable that he should want her there. As for her being part of his plans, she was his only continuity. As to why they eventually parted, I imagine it had to do with that at a time when Jeremy needed her support, she became demanding of his.

But he seemed not to want anyone really close,which is why he has accommodated himself to prison life. It was Brett who stayed with him at the Maida Vale flat not Julie,and as for the relatives,if you suspected someone of mass murder it would be hard to approach them and stay civil.

[Steve_uk]

Because her (Mugford) "whole" testimony was built upon the "hitman" story that's why. Unfortunately this question was not asked in court. And of course as you say, he could only say that if he'd hired a hitman and knew they were all dead.
This of course scuppers Steve's other story that Bamber did it and then faked a phonecall to his cottage. He can't hold both accounts to be true, simply because of the timings.

The hitman story falls down because of the purported telephone call from Nevill to Jeremy,in which Sheila is named. There was no hitman:the hitman was a proxy for Jeremy,who was behind all of this.

[lookout]

But he seemed not to want anyone really close,which is why he has accommodated himself to prison life. It was Brett who stayed with him at the Maida Vale flat not Julie,and as for the relatives,if you suspected someone of mass murder it would be hard to approach them and stay civil.

Steve,,some people don't mind their own company,providing that they've got things to occupy their minds,,and a good strong character. Of which Jeremy has both,as his quest for freedom is endless with millions of documents in situ. I'd cope if there was plenty to do,.

[Jane]

He's a nonentity like David Bain,John Cannan and many others. Of course all was going well,because he had successfully completed his mission,and this confirms in my mind Julie's story when Jeremy had speculated on murder in the past. What the Defence can't quibble about is that there was a telephone call in the middle of the night from Jeremy,a material fact vouched for by other witnesses at the Lewisham flat,which is why it all looks so black for Jeremy.

Steve, if we are to take the supposed words "All is going well" it PREsupposes that Jeremy hadn't JUST speculated previously but had outlined a plan in which every i was dotted and every t was crossed. Not only that. It also presupposes that Julie knew in advance what was going to take place THAT night in order for "All is going well" to make any sort of sense.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, if we are to take the supposed words "All is going well" it PREsupposes that Jeremy hadn't JUST speculated previously but had outlined a plan in which every i was dotted and every t was crossed. Not only that. It also presupposes that Julie knew in advance what was going to take place THAT night in order for "All is going well" to make any sort of sense.

It's easy in retrospect to mull over a conversation and realize its import. I'm quite sure thousands of conversations take place across the country daily where people are talking across one another.

[Alias]

He's a nonentity like David Bain,John Cannan and many others. Of course all was going well,because he had successfully completed his mission,and this confirms in my mind Julie's story when Jeremy had speculated on murder in the past. What the Defence can't quibble about is that there was a telephone call in the middle of the night from Jeremy,a material fact vouched for by other witnesses at the Lewisham flat,which is why it all looks so black for Jeremy.

You cannot pick and choose like you do! I am surprised you even go into this phonecall, Mugsie really incriminates herself through it if you take it at face value (which I don´t, really, it makes no sense at all what she says)!!
Julie stated that Jeremy had been telling her about plans to kill his family for close to a year. He called her about 10 in the evening to tell her: "Tonight is the night, it´s now or never." To which Julie reacts as follows: A sigh of relief, he was not going through with it after all (??)
Then later - allegedly after he had killed his family - he called again to say that "everything is going well, something is wrong at the farm (again: ), to which Julie reacts as follows: "Jeremy, go back to bed." And then went to sleep herself.
What a load of BS!! But of course you can explain it away as you do everything with totally and utterly illogical and unlikely scenarios put forward as fact.