Author Topic: Does Jones slip here??????  (Read 16843 times)

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Offline grahameb

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #150 on: October 06, 2013, 01:53:PM »
Hi Patti

Thanks for all this info.  I will have to spend time reading it in detail and refer to a map.

I did read somewhere, Wilkes I think, Steve_uk will confirm, that JB might have borrowed Susan Battersby's boyfriend's (Mark Sheldon) roller skates.  The theory goes that coupled with the wetsuit, Marigolds and balaclava this gave JB an aero dynamic edge to complete the route in record time along the road and avoid detection.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4575.0;attach=33653

I believe the skates were of the inline variety.  This enabled him to negotiate the bends Grahame has referred to at breathtaking speeds:

http://0.tqn.com/d/inlineskating/1/G/k/D/-/-/apolo_ohno1.jpg
Nah. He would have tripped over the sulphur mines on the sea wall and picked up some of that nasty yellow mud wich is very common in Maldon.

Offline Jane

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #151 on: October 06, 2013, 02:07:PM »
Nah. He would have tripped over the sulphur mines on the sea wall and picked up some of that nasty yellow mud wich is very common in Maldon.




Grahame, that would be the famous "yellow brown" stuff of which Steve is so fond of telling us about, that nobody but RWB thought was proof of Jeremy's guilt.

No-Bits

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #152 on: October 07, 2013, 07:08:PM »
“With the aid of these maps I measured the distance, using a pedometer, from White House Farm to 9 Head Street, Goldhanger, via the farm track and sea wall.  This route measured 6,978 metres and at a brisk walk took 70 minutes to complete. I subsequently cycled this route in 35 minutes.
 
I then measured the distance, using a pedometer, from 9 Head Street, Goldhanger to Brook House Farm track at its junction with Maldon Road via Church Street and the B1026.  This route measured 2895 metres and at a brisk walk took 28 minutes to complete.  I subsequently cycled this route in 10 minutes.
 

I then measured the distance, using a pedometer, from Brook House Farm Track at its junction with Maldon Road to White House Farm via B1026 and B1023.  This route measured 3290 metres and at a brisk walk took 30 minutes to complete. I subsequently cycled this route in 12 minutes.
 
I then measured the distance, with a pedometer, from White House Farm to Maldon Road via Brook House Farm track.  This route measured 1629 metres and at a brisk walk took 17 minutes to complete.  This track is well maintained, clearly defined, and easily negotiable by foot, cycle or motor vehicle. I subsequently cycled this route in 6 minutes.
 
There are footpaths marked on the Ordnance Survey map which seem to link White House Farm and Goldhanger in a direct manner via Joyces Farm and Lauriston Farm.  However I have attempted to negotiate these footpaths but without success.  The paths go directly across ploughed fields or
cultivated crops or peter out on the banks of small streams and irrigation canals.
 
In my opinion the shortest practicable route between White House Farm and Goldhanger without using main roads is via the sea wall. However, the shortest and quickest practicable route between White House Farm and Goldhanger by foot, cycle or motor vehicle is by using Brook House Farm track and the B1026.  This route is 1661 metres less than going through Tolleshunt D'Arcy.”

The routes detailed here mostly involve going on a road, and yet no one saw anything. The footpaths away from the road were not negotiable. The sea wall is a narrow route with a drop into water on one side. Is it realistic to believe that Jeremy Bamber mounted a ladies bicycle and cycled across routes that were partly overgrown and he did all this in the pitch black in a matter of minutes?

Hi Patti, so the 6 minutes that people are quoting is just from WHF to Maldon Rd, It looks like that is where people are making the mistake, thinking that 6 minutes is the whole journey.

Just a note on the sea wall, the word 'wall' is a bit deceptive as there isn't a wall at all. It is a raised bank with sloping concrete on one side and a grass bank on the other. There is also rarely any water there, it is only at very high tides that the water reaches the bottom of the bank.
There is also innaccuracy in describing the sea wall as narrow, as it is (and was) several metres across, people often use the track when out horse riding without concerns. There are a couple of pinch points but nothing which makes the route innaccessible or dangerous. In addition to the track on top of the wall (bank/bund), there is a grass track at the bottom for much of the route, this grass track is wide enough for vehicles, in fact a six berth large mobile home has been towed and parked mid way along the track where a jetty extends across the mud flats giving access to the water for people using canoes.

Also, nobody is actually putting a time limit on the length of time for JB to make the journey. He could have taken the best part of an hour if he wanted to.

Caroline R

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #153 on: October 07, 2013, 07:14:PM »
Just an esitimate, but by road I would say at least 20 minutes.
By cross country/sea wall, about 30-45 minutes.

Depending on the bike and fitness of the rider.

Ok, thanks - that's quite a lot longer than I thought. It's difficult to picture the route if you have never been there.

Offline grahameb

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #154 on: October 07, 2013, 07:35:PM »
Hi Patti, so the 6 minutes that people are quoting is just from WHF to Maldon Rd, It looks like that is where people are making the mistake, thinking that 6 minutes is the whole journey.

Just a note on the sea wall, the word 'wall' is a bit deceptive as there isn't a wall at all. It is a raised bank with sloping concrete on one side and a grass bank on the other. There is also rarely any water there, it is only at very high tides that the water reaches the bottom of the bank.
There is also innaccuracy in describing the sea wall as narrow, as it is (and was) several metres across, people often use the track when out horse riding without concerns. There are a couple of pinch points but nothing which makes the route innaccessible or dangerous. In addition to the track on top of the wall (bank/bund), there is a grass track at the bottom for much of the route, this grass track is wide enough for vehicles, in fact a six berth large mobile home has been towed and parked mid way along the track where a jetty extends across the mud flats giving access to the water for people using canoes.

Also, nobody is actually putting a time limit on the length of time for JB to make the journey. He could have taken the best part of an hour if he wanted to.
Didn't Steve-uk say that Bamber phoned from WHF to his house in Goldhanger and leave a message on his answering mosheen to give the impression that his father had phoned 5 minutes earlier. Then he rode ho,e on his bike and made his famous phone call to the peelers.
Now that made me wonder if there was any proof of this? For as you say if there is not then Bamber could have taken as long as he needed to.

Offline susan

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #155 on: October 07, 2013, 07:38:PM »
Hi Grahame if indeed Jeremy made the journey at all :'(

Offline grahameb

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #156 on: October 07, 2013, 07:55:PM »
Hi Grahame if indeed Jeremy made the journey at all :'(
Of course. It's all speculation that came from the furtive imagination of RWB.

Offline lookout

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #157 on: October 07, 2013, 08:05:PM »
Of course. It's all speculation that came from the furtive imagination of RWB.





Indeed it did,Grahame.

Caroline R

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #158 on: October 07, 2013, 08:11:PM »
Didn't Steve-uk say that Bamber phoned from WHF to his house in Goldhanger and leave a message on his answering mosheen to give the impression that his father had phoned 5 minutes earlier. Then he rode ho,e on his bike and made his famous phone call to the peelers.
Now that made me wonder if there was any proof of this? For as you say if there is not then Bamber could have taken as long as he needed to.

There is none at all BUT for the fact that he said his father rang him fairly close to the time of his phone call to the police. In essence, he was saying that his family were alive around 3am and he had no way of knowing that the police wouldn't gain immediate access once they arrived at the farm. Had the house been stormed immediately, it would have been obvious that they had been dead a lot longer than was claimed and Jeremy would have been banged to rights. It's OK saying 'well, he took an educated risk' - it wouldn't have been educated at all - he had NO WAY of knowing that there would be a siege situation for several hours and for someone who is supposed to have planned this night for over a year, I don't buy that he would have risked all on such an assumption. 

Offline Jane

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #159 on: October 07, 2013, 08:37:PM »
There is none at all BUT for the fact that he said his father rang him fairly close to the time of his phone call to the police. In essence, he was saying that his family were alive around 3am and he had no way of knowing that the police wouldn't gain immediate access once they arrived at the farm. Had the house been stormed immediately, it would have been obvious that they had been dead a lot longer than was claimed and Jeremy would have been banged to rights. It's OK saying 'well, he took an educated risk' - it wouldn't have been educated at all - he had NO WAY of knowing that there would be a siege situation for several hours and for someone who is supposed to have planned this night for over a year, I don't buy that he would have risked all on such an assumption.



Caroline, it's often amused me that Steve has created a Jeremy who has this deed planned to the nth degree, a Jeremy who knows within a degree or two that "tonight's the night" to put his plan in action. A Jeremy who also seems to be capable of knowing exactly what the police will do before they even know themselves. A Jeremy who knows he can stop the police going in to his parents house until HE is certain that the time is right. What Steve fails to realize is that the only place we can control another's actions is in our imaginations. In reality, Jeremy had NO control over what the police did that night. They made their own choices.

Caroline R

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #160 on: October 07, 2013, 08:46:PM »


Caroline, it's often amused me that Steve has created a Jeremy who has this deed planned to the nth degree, a Jeremy who knows within a degree or two that "tonight's the night" to put his plan in action. A Jeremy who also seems to be capable of knowing exactly what the police will do before they even know themselves. A Jeremy who knows he can stop the police going in to his parents house until HE is certain that the time is right. What Steve fails to realize is that the only place we can control another's actions is in our imaginations. In reality, Jeremy had NO control over what the police did that night. They made their own choices.

Exactly April and it was far too risky to make a guess - educated or otherwise!!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #161 on: October 08, 2013, 11:13:PM »


Caroline, it's often amused me that Steve has created a Jeremy who has this deed planned to the nth degree, a Jeremy who knows within a degree or two that "tonight's the night" to put his plan in action. A Jeremy who also seems to be capable of knowing exactly what the police will do before they even know themselves. A Jeremy who knows he can stop the police going in to his parents house until HE is certain that the time is right. What Steve fails to realize is that the only place we can control another's actions is in our imaginations. In reality, Jeremy had NO control over what the police did that night. They made their own choices.
Why telephone Julie at all? It's the question DS Jones asked Jeremy on 10 September 1985 and the lame answer was "..to tell her what was going on". In fact Jeremy said "all is going well",then realizing that Julie may not have been alone and therefore capable of being overheard added "Something is wrong at the Farm". It's damning that Jeremy has to telephone Julie in a vain attempt to rope her in as an accessory,when it's evident to me at that point the mission is accomplished and all lie dead at White House Farm.

As for Jeremy's stalling tactics,it's also pretty clear that inexperienced Police Constables called out in the middle of the night to a desolate farmhouse are not going to rush the place but call for reinforcements and take any overtime,especially when Jeremy erroneously informs them there's a nutter on the loose who had recently indulged in target practice..
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 11:15:PM by Steve_uk »

Caroline R

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #162 on: October 08, 2013, 11:17:PM »
Why telephone Julie at all? It's the question DS Jones asked Jeremy on 10 September 1985 and the lame answer was "..to tell her what was going on". In fact Jeremy said "all is going well",then realizing that Julie may not have been alone and therefore capable of being overheard added "Something is wrong at the Farm". It's damning that Jeremy has to telephone Julie in a vain attempt to rope her in as an accessory,when it's evident to me at that point the mission is accomplished and all lie dead at White House Farm.

As for Jeremy's stalling tactics,it's also pretty clear that inexperienced Police Constables called out in the middle of the night to a desolate farmhouse are not going to rush the place but call for reinforcements and take any overtime,especially when Jeremy erroneously informs them there's a nutter on the loose who had recently indulged in target practice..

No, it's not.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #163 on: October 08, 2013, 11:22:PM »
No, it's not.
He also makes a beeline for Julie at the first opportunity that morning at Bourtree Cottage and engineers a rendez-vous upstairs alone,on more than one occasion according to Ann Eaton. It's clear at this early stage that Julie is very much part of his plans..

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Does Jones slip here??????
« Reply #164 on: October 08, 2013, 11:23:PM »
..no feelings for the dead,no remorse expressed for leaving the gun out on the table,settle or whatever Jeremy's cover story was. Nothing except a visit to Basil Cock's that afternoon to discuss finances.