Why Nevill called Jeremy and not the police

[campion]

Some excellent dialogue on this thread, thanks to the apparent antagonistic attitude of our friend Nickos.
In April's post #25, did the immediate family shorten Sheila's name to 'SHE', in the fashion of Pamela being called 'Pam' ?

[Roch]

Neville may have been unable to challenge Sheila had she locked herself in the toilet or bathroom with the gun.
At that time people were not as enlighted about things like mental illness. Neville may have been trying to protect the family against gossip. In a small place like that gossip is usually rife.
Neville may have had Sheila's well being at heart. Imagine how she would have reacted to the police arriving. 'Coming to take her away from her children'.
Jeremy was not in a position to judge whether calling 999 was necessary. Neville was, and Jeremy could therefore surmise that it wasn't needed.

Often enjoy reading your posts lebaleb.

[Jane]

Neville may have been unable to challenge Sheila had she locked herself in the toilet or bathroom with the gun.
At that time people were not as enlighted about things like mental illness. Neville may have been trying to protect the family against gossip. In a small place like that gossip is usually rife.
Neville may have had Sheila's well being at heart. Imagine how she would have reacted to the police arriving. 'Coming to take her away from her children'.
Jeremy
was not in a position to judge whether calling 999 was necessary. Neville was, and Jeremy could therefore surmise that it wasn't needed.

Lebaleb, that is a very valid point and not one that, although I can usually see the bigger picture, I'd considered. As I said, with some difficulty to Nickos, who may be deaf of perhaps has selective hearing, Sheila didn't just materialize out of the ether to confront Nevill with a gun. There has to be a background story and a girl locking herself in a bathroom to avoid parental wrath is a time honoured means of escape.

[maggie]

Lebaleb, that is a very valid point and not one that, although I can usually see the bigger picture, I'd considered. As I said, with some difficulty to Nickos, who may be deaf of perhaps has selective hearing, Sheila didn't just materialize out of the ether to confront Nevill with a gun. There has to be a background story and a girl locking herself in a bathroom to avoid parental wrath is a time honoured means of escape.

I have always thought Sheila could have locked herself in the downstairs loo (it's true, it is girl behaviour) and remember APs rifle was kept in there although we are not quite sure if it was present that night and if it was whether it was all there.  She may have got hold of this weapon whilst in the loo and been threatening to shoot herself at that point for all we know.  This may have given her an idea when she spotted the .22 on or near the settle??

[maggie]

I have always thought Sheila could have locked herself in the downstairs loo (it's true, it is girl behaviour) and remember APs rifle was kept in there although we are not quite sure if it was present that night and if it was whether it was all there.  She may have got hold of this weapon whilst in the loo and been threatening to shoot herself at that point for all we know.  This may have given her an idea when she spotted the .22 on or near the settle??

If Sheila had locked herself in the downstairs loo with a gun, threatening to shoot herself Nevill's anxiety would have been focussed on her not other members of the family as he wouldn't have seen them as being in danger at that moment.
Maybe Sheila came out of the loo and ran upstairs as he finished his call to Jeremy?
That would answer Steve etc's argument that Nevill wouldn't leave June/the boys vulnerable to a dangerous Sheila with a gun? Also answer why he phoned Jeremy first not the police, 999 etc..

[susan]

Maggie do you know if Sheila could have gone upstairs without having to pass Ralph in the kitchen and after he phoned Jeremy he heard the shots upstairs dropped the phone and ran up the main stairs by that time the twins had been shot as was poor June then Ralph received bullets all so confusing.

[lebaleb]

2002 appeal:
60. Found in or just outside the bedroom were thirteen cartridge cases. Seven would account for the shots into June Bamber, two for the wounds suffered by Sheila Caffell, leaving four cartridge cases that had been fired at Nevill Bamber. Three further cartridge cases were found in the kitchen, with a further case on the stairs leading up from the kitchen. If one accepts that the four shots to the head which would have immobilised and killed Nevill Bamber were fired in the kitchen where his body was recovered, it would follow that he had received the less serious injuries upstairs in the bedroom and was then able to make his way downstairs where he was subsequently killed.

It asks us to accept that the 4 head shots were fired in the kitchen. That's after stating only three cartridges were found there. I find it highly improbable that one of the cartridges was carried upstairs on a policemans boot. This point is important because of [1]the struggle ''which undoubtably'' [sic] took place in the kitchen and [2]the theory that Sheila would have been unable to overpower Neville.
The cartridge ''on the stairs'' was in fact at the top of the stairs just outside the bedroom.

[killingeve]

2002 appeal:
60. Found in or just outside the bedroom were thirteen cartridge cases. Seven would account for the shots into June Bamber, two for the wounds suffered by Sheila Caffell, leaving four cartridge cases that had been fired at Nevill Bamber. Three further cartridge cases were found in the kitchen, with a further case on the stairs leading up from the kitchen. If one accepts that the four shots to the head which would have immobilised and killed Nevill Bamber were fired in the kitchen where his body was recovered, it would follow that he had received the less serious injuries upstairs in the bedroom and was then able to make his way downstairs where he was subsequently killed.

It asks us to accept that the 4 head shots were fired in the kitchen. That's after stating only three cartridges were found there. I find it highly improbable that one of the cartridges was carried upstairs on a policemans boot. This point is important because of [1]the struggle ''which undoubtably'' [sic] took place in the kitchen and [2]the theory that Sheila would have been unable to overpower Neville.
The cartridge ''on the stairs'' was in fact at the top of the stairs just outside the bedroom.

2002 appeal:
60. Found in or just outside the bedroom were thirteen cartridge cases. Seven would account for the shots into June Bamber, two for the wounds suffered by Sheila Caffell, leaving four cartridge cases that had been fired at Nevill Bamber. Three further cartridge cases were found in the kitchen, with a further case on the stairs leading up from the kitchen. If one accepts that the four shots to the head which would have immobilised and killed Nevill Bamber were fired in the kitchen where his body was recovered, it would follow that he had received the less serious injuries upstairs in the bedroom and was then able to make his way downstairs where he was subsequently killed.

It asks us to accept that the 4 head shots were fired in the kitchen. That's after stating only three cartridges were found there. I find it highly improbable that one of the cartridges was carried upstairs on a policemans boot. This point is important because of [1]the struggle ''which undoubtably'' [sic] took place in the kitchen and [2]the theory that Sheila would have been unable to overpower Neville.
The cartridge ''on the stairs'' was in fact at the top of the stairs just outside the bedroom.

Hi Lebaleb

I have posted about this previously.  The pathologist is unable to confirm the effect of the four head shots individually.  So it might have been that NB received one of the head shots upstairs and managed to get downstairs.  Either way due to NB's other injuries he was incapable of putting ip any defence.

[lebaleb]

From the trajectory of the shots the head and jaw shots appear to be in pairs. In my opinion, it would be unlikely that 2 shots could by chance have the same trajectory had they not been fired in close succession.
It should read: 'Found in or just outside the bedroom were 14 cartridge cases.' 7 to June, 2 to Sheila and 5 to Ralph. This would mean at least 2 head shots in the bedroom.

[lookout]

If I'm right,,and the Anschutz was a comparatively new one,,would there be the same amount of lead residue emanating from it as in one which was an older model.? I'm thinking about the lack of lead deposits on Sheila.  What forensics found on Sheila,,were traces. Well this could well have been the result of having used the rifle,and not kitchen utensils as was stated.
I'm only surmising that anything more up to date,is more efficient because of advanced technology.

[maggie]

If I'm right,,and the Anschutz was a comparatively new one,,would there be the same amount of lead residue emanating from it as in one which was an older model.? I'm thinking about the lack of lead deposits on Sheila.  What forensics found on Sheila,,were traces. Well this could well have been the result of having used the rifle,and not kitchen utensils as was stated.
I'm only surmising that anything more up to date,is more efficient because of advanced technology.

Hi lookout, not sure if the age of the rifle would affect the amount of lead deposit on Sheila's hands.
I tend to go with Scott Lomax's proof that her hands were washed. Sheila's hands had some blood on the ball of her right thumb at the least  you can see it in the photos. As no evidence of presence of blood showed up on the swabs it proves there was something wrong with those
swab results ie. Either her hands had been washed/wiped before the swabs presented
were taken or the swabs were not from Sheila's hands??

[lookout]

Hi lookout, not sure if the age of the rifle would affect the amount of lead deposit on Sheila's hands.
I tend to go with Scott Lomax's proof that her hands were washed. Sheila's hands had some blood on the ball of her right thumb at the least  you can see it in the photos. As no evidence of presence of blood showed up on the swabs it proves there was something wrong with those
swab results ie. Either her hands had been washed/wiped before the swabs presented
were taken or the swabs were not from Sheila's hands??

Hi Maggie, yes,,,those swabs were contaminated.Sheesh. Was anything right with that case.?

[Patti]

From the trajectory of the shots the head and jaw shots appear to be in pairs. In my opinion, it would be unlikely that 2 shots could by chance have the same trajectory had they not been fired in close succession.
It should read: 'Found in or just outside the bedroom were 14 cartridge cases.' 7 to June, 2 to Sheila and 5 to Ralph. This would mean at least 2 head shots in the bedroom.

Hi Lebaleb Nice to see you posting again

It is likely that one case shell had been transferred under the boot of one of the raid team from the kitchen.  However, this miraculously dropped off in the main bedroom.  One would have to know what kind of boots they were wearing in order to come to this conclusion, but on saying that it is possible for this to have happened, but this can't be proved.

3 shell cases on the kitchen would mean that Neville sustained fatal shots there and one fatal shot in the bedroom.  This of course would mean that Neville had been carried downstairs by the killer and there were no struggle near the sink or any where else in the kitchen.   



KITCHEN
DRH/41 case...under kitchen table
DRH/ 19 case...on kitchen table
DRH/20 case....under the mat, infront of sink
DRH/23 bullet.....in a plastic tray on worktop near sink unit.

LANDING

DRH/14...landing floor adjacent to the wall.

MAIN BEDROOM


DRH/13 metal strip of doorway
DRH/6 top of quit right hand side of the bed
DRH/7 under wardrobe
DRH/7 under wardrobe (note Hammersley quotes two cases found under same serial number DRH7
DRH/8 left hand side of bed 4inches from the pillow
DRH/9 Bullet found 4 inches form DRH/8 near pillow left hand side of bed
DRH/10  on the quilt right hand side of the bed on floor.
DRH/11 right hand side of bed on the floor near the wardrobe
DRH/12 on the floor right hand side of the bed
DRH/43 under the wardrobe right hand side of bed
DRH/1 right side of Sheila's body
DRH/2 Left hand side of Sheila's body
DRH/3 on the floor inside the door of the main bedroom to the left of June's body.
DRH/4 next to DRH/3
DRH/5 Bullet.

TWINS ROOM

8 cases and 1 bullet.

DRH/37 under wooden bedside cabinet
DRH/36 Bullet
DRH/38 Under right hand side of the bed at the head of the bed
DRH 39 right hand corner under right hand side of the bed
DRH/39 (note Hammersley quotes two case shells)
DRH 40 under the middle of the right hand bed
DRH/16 floor between both beds
DRH/17 On wooden cabinet between both beds
DRH18 right hand side of bed

[killingeve]

Hi Lebaleb Nice to see you posting again

It is likely that one case shell had been transferred under the boot of one of the raid team from the kitchen.  However, this miraculously dropped off in the main bedroom.  One would have to know what kind of boots they were wearing in order to come to this conclusion, but on saying that it is possible for this to have happened, but this can't be proved.

3 shell cases on the kitchen would mean that Neville sustained fatal shots there and one fatal shot in the bedroom.  This of course would mean that Neville had been carried downstairs by the killer and there were no struggle near the sink or any where else in the kitchen.   



KITCHEN
DRH/41 case...under kitchen table
DRH/ 19 case...on kitchen table
DRH/20 case....under the mat, infront of sink
DRH/23 bullet.....in a plastic tray on worktop near sink unit.

LANDING

DRH/14...landing floor adjacent to the wall.

MAIN BEDROOM


DRH/13 metal strip of doorway
DRH/6 top of quit right hand side of the bed
DRH/7 under wardrobe
DRH/7 under wardrobe (note Hammersley quotes two cases found under same serial number DRH7
DRH/8 left hand side of bed 4inches from the pillow
DRH/9 Bullet found 4 inches form DRH/8 near pillow left hand side of bed
DRH/10  on the quilt right hand side of the bed on floor.
DRH/11 right hand side of bed on the floor near the wardrobe
DRH/12 on the floor right hand side of the bed
DRH/43 under the wardrobe right hand side of bed
DRH/1 right side of Sheila's body
DRH/2 Left hand side of Sheila's body
DRH/3 on the floor inside the door of the main bedroom to the left of June's body.
DRH/4 next to DRH/3
DRH/5 Bullet.

TWINS ROOM

8 cases and 1 bullet.

DRH/37 under wooden bedside cabinet
DRH/36 Bullet
DRH/38 Under right hand side of the bed at the head of the bed
DRH 39 right hand corner under right hand side of the bed
DRH/39 (note Hammersley quotes two case shells)
DRH 40 under the middle of the right hand bed
DRH/16 floor between both beds
DRH/17 On wooden cabinet between both beds
DRH18 right hand side of bed

Morning Patti

I love you.

I will read the pathologis's report very carefully as I find it ambigous.  I think what he is saying is that the four head shots together would prove fatal but that individually he may have survived for a short while ie possibly moved from bedroom to kitchen.  This would then tie in with the location of the bullets 

[Patti]

Morning Patti

I love you.

I will read the pathologis's report very carefully as I find it ambigous.  I think what he is saying is that the four head shots together would prove fatal but that individually he may have survived for a short while ie possibly moved from bedroom to kitchen.  This would then tie in with the location of the bullets 

It is questionable, but Vanezes is clear in his conclusions that in his opinion Neville received the last 4 bullets to his head when he had ceased to struggle.  They do look like double shots, there is no mistaking that....Even down to the two downward shots of Neville's left shoulder and arm. 

I love you too, hope you are not being naughty where you are...lol

See below.....X