Why Nevill called Jeremy and not the police

[maggie]

Hi Nickos, my Dad was in the RAF, Bomber Command in Palestine and N Africa in the war.  By 1985, 40 years had passed for both himself and Nevill.  I have been trying to imagine his reaction in a similar situation at a similar age and time.  I would think he would still have been quick to assess the situation, accept he was out of his depth and if possible call for backup.  Nevile was a pilot, not ground force or SAS so although trained in case of capture he was not an army man. imo.

What military training Nickos.
Neville was apparently a fighter pilot.  He was hospitalised and invalided out early 1940s so it was over 40years since he had been anywhere near the military.  He would have been trained how to deal with capture.  How to defend himself if he came down on enemy territory. He knew how to fly a plane, bail out etc.  he was not a professional military man but rather a volunteer, one of many, many unsung war heros who served in the RAF for probably no more than about 4/5 years.

[Nickos]

I don't think Nevill "left his wife and grandchildren unprotected" because I think he went downstairs when he heard Sheila. You speak as if there was just kitchen, stairs and bedrooms. WHF is a fairly large house which had been Sheila's home and there were numerous rooms she could have gone into. Who suggested that he DIDN'T attempt to take the gun from her? Perhaps he did and he felt that without using force he could go no further. Perhaps it was then that he called Jeremy.

What do you mean by this?

Nevill is alleged to have said “please come over your sister has gone crazy and has got the gun”.  What in that sentence makes you believe all was well.

I have made my point on this and will now move on - if you can't /don't want see the obviousness in what I am saying then so be it!

[Jane]

What do you mean by this?

Nevill is alleged to have said “please come over your sister has gone crazy and has got the gun”.  What in that sentence makes you believe all was well.

I have made my point on this and will now move on - if you can't /don't want see the obviousness in what I am saying then so be it!

How strange. I toyed with the idea of explaining further, but assumed that you'd understand. Nevill wasn't unaware of how Sheila was during these episodes. We know that he'd been called on in the past to calm her and had, indeed accomplished this BUT he never appears to have treated the situations with any sense of urgency. If you recall, Freddie called him from London because Sheila's behaviour had become disturbed and he was frightened. Nevill did NOT leave his bed to rush to assist, NOR did he call for help. He did nothing until the next day. He appeared, because of past experience, to believe he was capable of controlling the situation so when Sheila displayed symptoms that he's previously dealt with he didn't immediately panic. If he heard her (talking/arguing/laughing/shouting) he'd have no reason to think she had hold of a gun, and at that point she may NOT have had a gun. I think it was a situation which escalated very quickly to the point where he was unable to control it..................and forgive my rudeness, but if you can't/don't WANT to see that what I say is at least a strong possibility then so be it

[maggie]

How strange. I toyed with the idea of explaining further, but assumed that you'd understand. Nevill wasn't unaware of how Sheila was during these episodes. We know that he'd been called on in the past to calm her and had, indeed accomplished this BUT he never appears to have treated the situations with any sense of urgency. If you recall, Freddie called him from London because Sheila's behaviour had become disturbed and he was frightened. Nevill did NOT leave his bed to rush to assist, NOR did he call for help. He did nothing until the next day. He appeared, because of past experience, to believe he was capable of controlling the situation so when Sheila displayed symptoms that he's previously dealt with he didn't immediately panic. If he heard her (talking/arguing/laughing/shouting) he'd have no reason to think she had hold of a gun, and at that point she may NOT have had a gun. I think it was a situation which escalated very quickly to the point where he was unable to control it..................and forgive my rudeness, but if you can't/don't WANT to see that what I say is at least a strong possibility then so be it

Have always thought it strange the way Nevill left Freddie trying to deal with Sheila that night which definitely suggests that he didn't realise how dangerous one of her episodes could become.

[lookout]

Have always thought it strange the way Nevill left Freddie trying to deal with Sheila that night which definitely suggests that he didn't realise how dangerous one of her episodes could become.

Maggie,,I think Neville had concerns of his own to contend with and may have been heartily sick of what was to be a turning point in Sheilas' life,,with her illness,divorce,,the twins,Sheilas' instability in general,including employment,,involvement with social services,which went against the grain,,hospital fees and bills,,transactions concerning land,,being bashed by a relative,etc etc. I'd have hidden in a hole.

[lookout]

When you've got a thousand and one things going on in your life,,and you're expected to solve everything,,there comes a time when you must feel like giving up,,and poor Neville was reaching the end of his tether with everything,,,that's why he snapped on the phone that time and was perhaps short with everyone for a spell.Could you blame him.? He's the one I felt sorry for. The man of the house,,always there to solve problems,,put upon from every direction but at the same time going all out to try and please everyone for the sake of harmony.

[Nickos]

How strange. I toyed with the idea of explaining further, but assumed that you'd understand. Nevill wasn't unaware of how Sheila was during these episodes. We know that he'd been called on in the past to calm her and had, indeed accomplished this BUT he never appears to have treated the situations with any sense of urgency. If you recall, Freddie called him from London because Sheila's behaviour had become disturbed and he was frightened. Nevill did NOT leave his bed to rush to assist, NOR did he call for help. He did nothing until the next day. He appeared, because of past experience, to believe he was capable of controlling the situation so when Sheila displayed symptoms that he's previously dealt with he didn't immediately panic. If he heard her (talking/arguing/laughing/shouting) he'd have no reason to think she had hold of a gun, and at that point she may NOT have had a gun. I think it was a situation which escalated very quickly to the point where he was unable to control it..................and forgive my rudeness, but if you can't/don't WANT to see that what I say is at least a strong possibility then so be it

Please - Nevill allegedly knew Sheila had a gun (and had gone crazy) - that would clearly indicate a situation different to any before, and would have indicated a clear level of urgency!!

[maggie]

Maggie,,I think Neville had concerns of his own to contend with and may have been heartily sick of what was to be a turning point in Sheilas' life,,with her illness,divorce,,the twins,Sheilas' instability in general,including employment,,involvement with social services,which went against the grain,,hospital fees and bills,,transactions concerning land,,being bashed by a relative,etc etc. I'd have hidden in a hole.

  I did consider that when I posted the last thing just couldn't get it down as well as you just have    I can understand am feeling a little like that myself at the moment and I have a long way to go to catch up with Neville's stresses.   
I believe that's possibly why Neville was short on the phone with BW when she phoned about the bike, he was worn out with the harvesting, then finding he was having to try and sort out Sheila's horrendous problems and she wouldn't even contribute to the debate, just sat there staring into space.      Then BW started nagging about bikes. 

[Caroline R]

Please - Nevill allegedly knew Sheila had a gun (and had gone crazy) - that would clearly indicate a situation different to any before, and would have indicated a clear level of urgency!!

There is a marked difference between the sentence"Sheila has gone crazy with the gun" and "Sheila has gone crazy, she's got the gun" People keep trying to slip in the former sentence when arguing that Jeremy is guilty but it was the latter sentence that Jeremy reported.

[lookout]

 I think Neville had totally given up the fight.He'd had enough,was tired,weary to say nothing of being unhappy at the way things had panned out all round. He probably felt that he couldn't do right for doing wrong. He certainly wasn't aware of Sheilas' chronic condition,,as he'd only taken onboard what Dr Ferguson had said about it being " mild " schizophrenia. You can't have mild schizophrenia.! But nobody,,not even the psychiatrists realised or knew at the time. They don't know enough now in 2013,,so there was no chance back in the 1980's.
If psychiatrists back then had warned Neville of the dangers of such an illness and its consequences,,I don't think Neville would have been as complacent,,or Jeremy,if he'd been told.
It was a total lack of awareness of the illness and its repercussions that was wholly to blame for the tragedy,,,and the very fact that we haven't moved on much further with understanding the implications,that I find disturbing,,,as murders/suicides are still happening today involving those who are diagnosed as being paranoid schizophrenics.

[lookout]

It was only sheer ignorance that Jeremy addressed his sister as " a nutter ".He'd said it out of pure embarassment and his only way of describing something which he knew nothing at all about. He's since admitted whilst being in prison,that he's actually studied Sheilas' illness for a better understanding of it.
I'm almost sure that had Jeremy known from the start how very sick his sister was,,things would have been entirely different.
I bet Jeremy has felt really awful at times,thinking about Sheila,and wishing he'd known what the problem was.

[Jane]

Please - Nevill allegedly knew Sheila had a gun (and had gone crazy) - that would clearly indicate a situation different to any before, and would have indicated a clear level of urgency!!

But the gun didn't miraculously jump into her hand, there could have been a period of dialogue/argument before that occurred, THEN it "would have indicated a clear level of urgency!!"

[lebaleb]

Neville may have been unable to challenge Sheila had she locked herself in the toilet or bathroom with the gun.
At that time people were not as enlighted about things like mental illness. Neville may have been trying to protect the family against gossip. In a small place like that gossip is usually rife.
Neville may have had Sheila's well being at heart. Imagine how she would have reacted to the police arriving. 'Coming to take her away from her children'.
Jeremy was not in a position to judge whether calling 999 was necessary. Neville was, and Jeremy could therefore surmise that it wasn't needed.

[maggie]

Neville may have been unable to challenge Sheila had she locked herself in the toilet or bathroom with the gun.
At that time people were not as enlighted about things like mental illness. Neville may have been trying to protect the family against gossip. In a small place like that gossip is usually rife.
Neville may have had Sheila's well being at heart. Imagine how she would have reacted to the police arriving. 'Coming to take her away from her children'.
Jeremy was not in a position to judge whether calling 999 was necessary. Neville was, and Jeremy could therefore surmise that it wasn't needed.

Very true lebaleb,decisions were made that night on the spur of the moment, the
People involved had to make snap decisions not knowing the complete picture.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[lookout]

No disrespects to Jeremy,,but I think he was gormless when it came to family issues,,hence his non-speedy reaction to his fathers' call. Only when he tried to ring his father and instead got the engaged tone,did he panic.