Author Topic: Marks made later, sensation:-  (Read 4965 times)

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Offline Patti

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2013, 11:23:PM »
Also if you look the tea towels are perfectly folded in front of the Aga, they are not even disturbed.... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Caroline R

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2013, 01:02:AM »
Also if you look the tea towels are perfectly folded in front of the Aga, they are not even disturbed.... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Personally, I don't think there was any such struggle, I think once Neville had been shot twice in the arm sadly, he wouldn't have needed to be over-powered.

Offline tyler

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2013, 01:32:AM »
I don't think it was confirmed that Neville was struck on the head with the rifle. The head wounds were described as being caused by a "linear" object. Was it the prosecution that suggested a poker? Surely they must have forensically tested the poker...then again probably not!

Caroline R

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2013, 01:52:AM »
I don't think it was confirmed that Neville was struck on the head with the rifle. The head wounds were described as being caused by a "linear" object. Was it the prosecution that suggested a poker? Surely they must have forensically tested the poker...then again probably not!
 

No, I know it was never confirmed but it is 'bandied' about here  from time to time. The same would be true of the poker if that had been used (or any other object).

Offline lookout

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2013, 09:43:AM »
The similarities of "finger nail " grab marks on both June and Neville. Can only be made with longer nails.
Nails which were never examined ( scrapings from underneath )

Offline maggie

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2013, 10:54:AM »
The similarities of "finger nail " grab marks on both June and Neville. Can only be made with longer nails.
Nails which were never examined ( scrapings from underneath )
Hi lookout, didn't Sheila have these marks on her arms as well?  This has always puzzled me. ::)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 10:54:AM by maggie »

Offline lookout

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2013, 11:49:AM »
Hi lookout, didn't Sheila have these marks on her arms as well?  This has always puzzled me. ::)



Maggie,,they may have been self-inflicted as she was a self-harmer. Then again,it could have been June making a grab for the rifle ( dependent on the circumference of the marks,i.e. feminine/masculine )

Offline Nickos

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2013, 02:16:PM »
The photos at the beginning of this thread are intriguing as I cannot see any marks on the Aga and yet Sutherst (the photographic expert) was unable to confirm this point with the CCRC.

As I’ve stated before the marks are either there or not – surely an “expert” can determine this with some certainty.

Has Sutherst given up on this point?

If the expert gives up what chance has a mere poster with Forum pictures got?

Reality Check - What evidence is there to free JB? Answers on a very small postcard!

Offline Jane

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2013, 02:40:PM »
The photos at the beginning of this thread are intriguing as I cannot see any marks on the Aga and yet Sutherst (the photographic expert) was unable to confirm this point with the CCRC.

As I’ve stated before the marks are either there or not – surely an “expert” can determine this with some certainty.

Has Sutherst given up on this point?

If the expert gives up what chance has a mere poster with Forum pictures got?



Thanks for that Nickos. I can't see any marks on the Aga, either :)

Offline campion

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2013, 04:25:PM »
Correct me if I have got this wrapped round my neck, but I eventually came to realise that the said marks had been gouged, out of sight, to the underside of the wooden surround to the fireplace.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2013, 11:29:PM »
This is what everyone should be focusing upon - the casts made of the marks and scratches (ND/48 and ND/49) found on the aga surround by DS Davidson on 1st October 1985:-
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 11:33:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2013, 11:34:PM »
Marks and scratches were located on a part of the kitchen aga behind where the blue and white jacket is hanging...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Roch

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2013, 11:42:PM »
Mr Sutherst mentions that there were no scratches on the aga on the morning of 7th August 1985, and that these did not materialize until about a month later, and that there were no fragments of red paint on the carpet, in the 7th August 1985, photographs...

But did he examine photographs taken on 12th September 1985, to see if corresponding red paint samples were present on the kitchen carpet at that vital stage?

The problem is Sutherst got battered.  For whatever reason.  They should have got another expert in to review his findings and claims.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2013, 11:47:PM »
Marks and scratches were located on a part of the kitchen aga behind where the blue and white jacket is hanging...

Yet, the blue and white striped jacket which can clearly be seen to be hanging there, was not even made into an exhibit. But it was arguably a very significant piece of evidence, since as it were, it served to protect the very area where marks and scratches later became photographed (12th September 1985). With this in mind, I would like to invite you all to look at that part of the blue and white striped jacket which is hanging below the level of the mantlepiece shelf, I would like to suggest to you all that the overlapping part of the jacket, is either slightly greater than the distance beneath the mantlepiece, so that anything coming into contact with the underside of the mantlepiece on that part of the aga, would also have  come into direct contact with the jacket, thus lifting it up against the underside of the shelf, and preventing the sort of gouge mark shown in the image being made there, without also damaging the material of the jacket in question. Basically, what I am trying to say is that you might not only get one gouging on the underside of the shelf, you would also get some damage to the material of the jacket which was covering that particular part of the aga at the time of the shootings...

No such damage exists on the material of the jacket, and no fibers from the said jacket were found to embedded into the gouge and scratches - this gives a good indication that the story about the silencer being fitted to the guns barrel at the time of a purported struggle between Ralph and his killer is probably bogus...
« Last Edit: August 14, 2013, 11:51:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Caroline R

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Re: Marks made later, sensation:-
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2013, 12:04:AM »
Yet, the blue and white striped jacket which can clearly be seen to be hanging there, was not even made into an exhibit. But it was arguably a very significant piece of evidence, since as it were, it served to protect the very area where marks and scratches later became photographed (12th September 1985). With this in mind, I would like to invite you all to look at that part of the blue and white striped jacket which is hanging below the level of the mantlepiece shelf, I would like to suggest to you all that the overlapping part of the jacket, is either slightly greater than the distance beneath the mantlepiece, so that anything coming into contact with the underside of the mantlepiece on that part of the aga, would also have  come into direct contact with the jacket, thus lifting it up against the underside of the shelf, and preventing the sort of gouge mark shown in the image being made there, without also damaging the material of the jacket in question. Basically, what I am trying to say is that you might not only get one gouging on the underside of the shelf, you would also get some damage to the material of the jacket which was covering that particular part of the aga at the time of the shootings...

No such damage exists on the material of the jacket, and no fibers from the said jacket were found to embedded into the gouge and scratches - this gives a good indication that the story about the silencer being fitted to the guns barrel at the time of a purported struggle between Ralph and his killer is probably bogus...
[/quote

This area was most likely chosen for the very fact that the jacket was hanging there in the first place!! Another 'convenient' piece of evidence!!