ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'

[susan]

Morning N/N  are you talking to yourself or am I having a funny turn as I have two hunky Highlanders removing all my wordly goods just now

[Jane]

Morning N/N  are you talking to yourself or am I having a funny turn as I have two hunky Highlanders removing all my wordly goods just now

Susan, I was just about to ask her the same question!!!!! Hunky Highlanders!!!!!! For Breakfast!!!!! Just how lucky can a girl get!!!!!

[Jane]

PS for NaNu. Many thanks for the link. Will enjoy sinking my teeth into that.

[maggie]

Lugg, the FIRST one being, and I CAN only judge from the wording of his posts here, the belief that adopted children aren't as equal as others. I can only pray that he doesn't have to come into contact with adopted children in his "real" world. His attitute, in which, sadly, he's not alone, is damaging to a child's sense of self.

Hi April its also a huge insult to adopted parents who love their 'adopted' children at least as much as if they were 'biological'. I am in no way a lesser person because I adopted my children, neither do my children show the slightest sign of being in anyway 'grateful' or of lacking sense of self. We are Mum and Dad, the 'rents, whatever,........ Steve's attitude is at least Victorian.

[Jane]

Hi April its also a huge insult to adopted parents who love their 'adopted' children at least as much as if they were 'biological'. I am in no way a lesser person because I adopted my children, neither do my children show the slightest sign of being in anyway 'grateful' or of lacking sense of self. We are Mum and Dad, the 'rents, whatever,........ Steve's attitude is at least Victorian.

Which in a perfect world, Maggie is what parenthood is about. One can only pray that should Steve ever have the priviledge of having children, he will revise his archaic beliefs.

[campion]

Guten Morgen fellow posters, and OchAy the Noo to Sue, who apparently is having a moving experience. Back to Steve's harking on about JB allegedly being stigmatised for being an illegitimate. Was he interviewing fellow Gresham boarders/form-mates, and one of them elicited :- 'yes he was a stinker/japer, he really could be a 'bit of a bastard'! This would be symptomatic of Stan interviewing the then Mugford:- What was the last thing Jeremy said at the end of his 'phonecall? - J M : 'Night-night!', stan :'So that's two nights', and he writes down in JM's Witness Statement - "Tonight's the night" - what an absolute stinker you are Stan, a right bastard!

[killingeve]

Susan, I was just about to ask her the same question!!!!! Hunky Highlanders!!!!!! For Breakfast!!!!! Just how lucky can a girl get!!!!!

April/Susan

Talking/posting to self avoids any risk of an argument breaking out. 

Susan do they look like the hunky Scot on the porridge oats box: kilt and vest wearing shot putter?

[susan]

N/N I shall be totally honest with you one has no hair and is from Leeds we had so much in common i.e. fish and chips and real ale the other one is a lovely local man and when I first met him many years ago he had a big mop of curls sadly now very few but one you would just want to take care of

[susan]

N/N not sure about that think you could manage to argue with yourself just kidding as you well know You are one of my fave's

[killingeve]

PS for NaNu. Many thanks for the link. Will enjoy sinking my teeth into that.

Hi April

You're welcome    Just read the first page and noticed the author is your namesake 

It's very heavy think I might need two Trappist beers.

[Nickos]

Hi Susan, thanks, and of course you’re entitled to your opinion, even if you're wrong  .

The reality, as I’m sure in other cases, is that evidence does unfortunately get destroyed (deliberately / accidentally!?), lost, etc, but don’t overlook the position that some of the evidence in this case presented on the Forum as withheld was in fact available at trial, but not spotted by the defence (so in some way it really is a case of what was the Defence doing). If some evidence was photocopied by the Prosecution on the back of another piece of evidence, it is quite a weak case of the Defence to say we didn’t turn a page over so missed this evidence.

It is I believe trial protocol that the defence get to see what the Prosecution is going to present, so can then base their defence accordingly. It is also the Defence position to collate as much evidence themselves to secure a not guilty outcome.

However some information in the JB case has been presented as new or controversial  - the “2nd telephone log” being one – but none of this, in fact all the appeal evidence presented to date, is considered by the CCRC as not strong enough to order a re-trial.

One of the aspects of the Nat Fraser appeal, and subsequent re-trial, was that it was presented at trial by the Prosecution that Arlene’s wedding, engagement and eternity rings turned up at the Fraser house a short while after her disappearance, the Prosecution therefore alleging that Nat Fraser had access to her body and had removed the rings.

The Defence then found out from certain police officers (yes, police officers) that the officers had in fact seen the rings in the house on the day of her disappearance, thereby undermining the Prosecutions account. As we know Nat Fraser (and his team) managed to get this and no doubt other points to the English Supreme Court who quashed Nat’s original conviction and ordered a re-trial – so there is a route to a re-trial with the right support and evidence – even if the person is then proved guilty a second time.

It seems to me that JB can’t even get over the CCRC start line with what he has available – it’s a no hoper!!

The jury in JB’s case (as with the Nat Fraser case) believed imo there was enough smoke, so there had to be fire -  I believe there is a strong possibility JB (as with Nat Fraser) could still be found guilty a second time (especially if I was on the Prosecution Team  ) .

Susan (my love), I can't find a reply - are we drifting apart!!?   

[susan]

Nickos my love how could we ever drift apart   don't even know what my opinion was as far back as the 16th July could be so different today

[Nickos]

Nickos my love how could we ever drift apart   don't even know what my opinion was as far back as the 16th July could be so different today

I'll take it we're back together  What is your opinion today, and have you any idea what it might be tomorrow?

[susan]

Nickos my opinion today is I am so glad we are still an item and tomorrow will be the same.  My opinions tend to revolve around what the majority think

[Nickos]

Nickos my opinion today is I am so glad we are still an item and tomorrow will be the same.  My opinions tend to revolve around what the majority think

Susan x, Well the majority of the jury thought JB guilty. Can I sway you with this majority!!?