Author Topic: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985  (Read 138985 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #240 on: June 16, 2013, 06:54:PM »
Hi Steve :)

Are you not getting tired out yet lol

No, I'm afraid the defence could not argue about any fibre or any other forensic evidence at trial because there were none gathered to defend,  except of course the silencer, of which MAY HAVE HAD Sheila's DNA inside it.

Blood found several weeks later on a shirt is neither here nor there really is it? because it did not link him to the crime scene.

Whatever the views are on Jeremy Bamber, there is insufficient forensic evidence to link him to the crime he has been found guilty of committing.

I suppose at the time of trial in 1986 he had already had a trial by media based on???????? media speculation and gossip...

The silencer was a major part of the CPS's delivery in court, but modern science tells us it MAY HAVE HAD Sheila's DNA inside the silencer.  MAYBE's don't count in my book, if its not 100% certain, then it's not enough to convict.   However, this was not known in 1986.   :D :D :D :D
Actually the specks of blood were significant and had they been analysed earlier I'm sure would have been put before the jury. As for hairs or carpet fibres as I say these could easily be explained away as having been made on Jeremy's clothing or footwear on a previous occasion.

Offline lookout

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #241 on: June 16, 2013, 06:58:PM »
There are enough patches of different carpet, withheld,,to make a rug.!

Offline Patti

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #242 on: June 16, 2013, 07:00:PM »
Actually the specks of blood were significant and had they been analysed earlier I'm sure would have been put before the jury. As for hairs or carpet fibres as I say these could easily be explained away as having been made on Jeremy's clothing or footwear on a previous occasion.

But they weren't Steve, they were not significant at all because, at the end of the day it did not link him to the crime scene...I think sometimes no matter how hard it is, we have to except what is the right evidence against that of the imagination. ;) :) :) :) :)
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 07:02:PM by Patti »

Offline Jane

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #243 on: June 16, 2013, 07:01:PM »
It's the Defence who insist Sheila had a psychotic evidence in the early hours of Wednesday morning with no evidence whatsoever. All I'm saying is that Jeremy claimed in a statement to Police that Sheila had been in receipt of ECT and that Sheila's vacant stare and behaviour may have been a symptom of it.



Steve, please make your mind up. According to you, thus far, Jeremy is a world class liar. He makes a mistake over something about which I imagine he has very little interest and suddenly we can rely on what he says as being the truth. Oh, and the reason "the Defence" suggest that in all likelihood she suffered a psychotic episode was because numerous factors point to it, not least that the NHS had made a mucking fuddle of her meds, and what she was prescribed, she'd forgotten/omitted to take, added to which she's suffered several emotional traumas with absolutely no support.

Offline lookout

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #244 on: June 16, 2013, 07:02:PM »
A cut while shaving probably,Patti.

Caroline R

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #245 on: June 16, 2013, 07:05:PM »
Why was it put there at the end..what has an innocent Jeremy got to hide,as can also be said for his interrogation. Julie told us in her statement Jeremy had sussed out the Police when Julie said how nice they were being at the end of that first day at Bourtree Cottage.

EVERYONE hides part of themselves from others - YOU included. We act differently with different people and according the the situation. There are things you do in private, that you wouldn't do in public. We are ALL social actors and to try and read something sinister into those few words written by a journalist isn't worth consideration (IMO).

Offline Patti

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #246 on: June 16, 2013, 07:07:PM »
A cut while shaving probably,Patti.

Hi lookout, its all irrelevant isn't it, because it is not evidence and never will be.... ;) :) :) :) :)

Offline Jane

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #247 on: June 16, 2013, 07:07:PM »
EVERYONE hides part of themselves from others - YOU included. We act differently with different people and according the the situation. There are things you do in private, that you wouldn't do in public. We are ALL social actors and to try and read something sinister into those few words written by a journalist isn't worth consideration (IMO).


Caroline, I feel that in Steve's world, ANYTHING which might further add weight to his belief in Jeremy's guilt is worth consideration.

Offline maggie

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #248 on: June 16, 2013, 07:10:PM »
It's the Defence who insist Sheila had a psychotic evidence in the early hours of Wednesday morning with no evidence whatsoever. All I'm saying is that Jeremy claimed in a statement to Police that Sheila had been in receipt of ECT and that Sheila's vacant stare and behaviour may have been a symptom of it.
Ok Steve if you insist but there is NO evidence Sheila ever had ECT, we do know June had it at some point.   It was mainly used for depression as stated before.  If Sheila had ECT treatment the last possible treatment would have been at her last hospitalisation in the previous May (I think). 
After ECT a patient has a recovery period which may cause some withdrawal  but this is temporary and afterwards the mood is bright and positive until often slipping back into depression at a later date.

Sheila would not have suddenly out of the blue become withdrawn because she had ECT a few months before.

On the other hand although there is no proof, we know Sheila was a paranoid schizophrenic who suffered psychotic episodes but may also have been constantly in a state of psychosis not apparent to people in general. 

We know she wasn't taking most of her medications, we know her Haloperidol, her anti psychotic medication, had been slashed to 100mgms from 250mgns which is a huge drop and that she was at the end of that dose and her next injection was imminent.

We know that week she had run screaming from the local monastery, something had obviously terrified her and there's a strong possibility she was at that point already in psychosis.

We know she became severely withdrawn as the week progressed and by the 6th August she was withdrawn and unresponsive.

We know that this sort of catatonic behaviour is common before a severe psychotic episode.

It's true we were not there and we do not know if Sheila killed herself and 4 members of her close family but weighing the odds you cannot deny there are real grounds for suspecting she may have.
 

Offline Jane

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #249 on: June 16, 2013, 07:11:PM »
Hi lookout, its all irrelevant isn't it, because it is not evidence and never will be.... ;) :) :) :) :)



Patti, don't forget all the numerous things the police left too late to do anything with, but had they done so ALL would have definitely incriminated Jeremy. Does that make it "Nearly evidence"?

Caroline R

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #250 on: June 16, 2013, 07:13:PM »

Caroline, I feel that in Steve's world, ANYTHING which might further add weight to his belief in Jeremy's guilt is worth consideration.

'Anything' is right April, cant believe ECT is being played again!!

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #251 on: June 16, 2013, 07:13:PM »


Steve, please make your mind up. According to you, thus far, Jeremy is a world class liar. He makes a mistake over something about which I imagine he has very little interest and suddenly we can rely on what he says as being the truth. Oh, and the reason "the Defence" suggest that in all likelihood she suffered a psychotic episode was because numerous factors point to it, not least that the NHS had made a mucking fuddle of her meds, and what she was prescribed, she'd forgotten/omitted to take, added to which she's suffered several emotional traumas with absolutely no support.
Did Jeremy realize Sheila had no medication left after the incident with the electrician's visit? Had Jeremy realized that his subterfuge with the telephones might work due to the lightning strike incident? I'm quoting Jeremy's words that Sheila had ECT but who knows if Jeremy was over-egging the pudding as usual,claiming that she was a "nutter" who had recently engaged in target practice. There were many lies mixed up in Jeremy's tale even though he told Julie "the trick is to tell the truth wherever possible"..

Offline lookout

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #252 on: June 16, 2013, 07:14:PM »
Hi lookout, its all irrelevant isn't it, because it is not evidence and never will be.... ;) :) :) :) :)



Hi Patti,,every little spot and speck is irrelevant now. :(

Caroline R

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #253 on: June 16, 2013, 07:18:PM »
Did Jeremy realize Sheila had no medication left after the incident with the electrician's visit? Had Jeremy realized that his subterfuge with the telephones might work due to the lightning strike incident? I'm quoting Jeremy's words that Sheila had ECT but who knows if Jeremy was over-egging the pudding as usual,claiming that she was a "nutter" who had recently engaged in target practice. There were many lies mixed up in Jeremy's tale even though he told Julie "the trick is to tell the truth wherever possible"..

Julie certainly didn't practice his advice  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #254 on: June 16, 2013, 07:19:PM »
You don't shave with your shirt on. Jeremy could well have put on his wetsuit over normal clothing and had a struggle ensued over the rifle in the kitchen with Nevill as it was raised overarm during which the ceiling light got smashed the sleeve of the wetsuit could well have become visible and on the cuff of the shirt under the wetsuit is exactly where I'd expect to find specks of blood.