Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985

[Jane]

Maggie the article is upsetting and nobody is saying Sheila wasn't ill. Surprisingly he was given ECT which might be an eye-opener for some on this forum. Sheila had never harmed her children in the past and as I say when someone acts one way in life and is reported to have acted differently after death I'm afraid alarm bells start to ring.

I think you will find that he was given ECT for depression. Certainly up till the 1960s it was the classic cure for depression but as Sheila was never deemed, on admission to hospital, to be depressed, it's highly unlikely, despite what you say, that it was ever used on her.

[susan]

Hello Caroline  you forgot the marigold gloves sorry one the other he burnt in the Aga I think

[Steve_uk]

"I found him all too human and understandable..except for the part that was hidden.."

http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf

[maggie]

I think you will find that he was given ECT for depression. Certainly up till the 1960s it was the classic cure for depression but as Sheila was never deemed, on admission to hospital, to be depressed, it's highly unlikely, despite what you say, that it was ever used on her.

It's true April it was used mainly for depression and as I said the two cases are not the same, I posted the link up to show how compelling inner voices can be during a psychotic episode. 
I know ECT was used on someone quite close to me in the 1970s and was surprised to discover it was still used for depression in the 1980s. 
Sheila's withdrawal before the killings at WHF can't have had anything to do with the effects of ECT, even if she had been treated that way, it would have been a long time before.  She was ok the night of the party Steve as you keep pointing out so why would she suddenly develop such a reaction out of the blue?
 

[Jane]

"I found him all too human and understandable..except for the part that was hidden.."

http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf

I hadn't realized that this person was a psychoanalyst too.

[maggie]

"I found him all too human and understandable..except for the part that was hidden.."

http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf

Have read this a few times Steve.  He was just saying in a dramatic way that he didn't know.  Don't think you can read anything into that comment steve.

[Steve_uk]

Have read this a few times Steve.  He was just saying in a dramatic way that he didn't know.  Don't think you can read anything into that comment steve.

Why was it put there at the end..what has an innocent Jeremy got to hide,as can also be said for his interrogation. Julie told us in her statement Jeremy had sussed out the Police when Julie said how nice they were being at the end of that first day at Bourtree Cottage.

[maggie]

I hadn't realized that this person was a psychoanalyst too.

April 

[maggie]

Why was it put there at the end..what has an innocent Jeremy got to hide,as can also be said for his interrogation. Julie told us in her statement Jeremy had sussed out the Police when Julie said how nice they were being at the end of that first day at Bourtree Cottage.

It's poetic license Steve, that's all.  You should understand that 

[lookout]

Why was it put there at the end..what has an innocent Jeremy got to hide,as can also be said for his interrogation. Julie told us in her statement Jeremy had sussed out the Police when Julie said how nice they were being at the end of that first day at Bourtree Cottage.

Steve,,Jeremy has got nothing to hide whatsoever. More likely it's the way he has of weighing up people and telling himself what pratts some of them are. I can imagine him doing that.

[susan]

steve  all human beings have a little bit of themselves hidden quite  normal behaviour.

[Jane]

Why was it put there at the end..what has an innocent Jeremy got to hide,as can also be said for his interrogation. Julie told us in her statement Jeremy had sussed out the Police when Julie said how nice they were being at the end of that first day at Bourtree Cottage.

On this occasion, Steve, I have no reason to doubt that what Julie says is correct. I feel very certain that they would haveacted courteously and with propriety. However, Jeremy's previous dealings with the police, i suspect, would have been very different from Julie's. We have heard how Nevill rated the local police, who, as a magistrate he ranked above and knowing what an arrogant little sod was Jeremy, he no doubt saw himself as ranking above them, too.

You ask why "it" was put there at the end!!!!! Steve, I can't believe that you, of all people, given your own literary style, are naive enough to ask that question :D :D :D

[Patti]

Hi Patti with respect Jeremy's defence team could always have argued that some fibre or other got into the master bedroom on a previous occasion as it was Jeremy's second home with part of Jeremy's wetsuit hanging in the wardrobe in a room with a placard marked "Jeremy's Room" on the door,another reason why I think Jeremy began to resent the twins as usurpers when he was expected to finally settle down and do the hard grafting whilst Sheila was living a subsidized life in London. Of course we don't know for sure that there was no forensic evidence linking Jeremy to the crime as he was only examined weeks later when tiny specks of blood were found on one of Jeremy's shirts,though the Prosecution were unable to link it to the crime due to the passage of those intervening weeks when Jeremy was at liberty.

Hi Steve

Are you not getting tired out yet lol

No, I'm afraid the defence could not argue about any fibre or any other forensic evidence at trial because there were none gathered to defend,  except of course the silencer, of which MAY HAVE HAD Sheila's DNA inside it.

Blood found several weeks later on a shirt is neither here nor there really is it? because it did not link him to the crime scene.

Whatever the views are on Jeremy Bamber, there is insufficient forensic evidence to link him to the crime he has been found guilty of committing.

I suppose at the time of trial in 1986 he had already had a trial by media based on?? media speculation and gossip...

The silencer was a major part of the CPS's delivery in court, but modern science tells us it MAY HAVE HAD Sheila's DNA inside the silencer.  MAYBE's don't count in my book, if its not 100% certain, then it's not enough to convict.   However, this was not known in 1986.   :D :D :D :D

[Steve_uk]

It's true April it was used mainly for depression and as I said the two cases are not the same, I posted the link up to show how compelling inner voices can be during a psychotic episode. 
I know ECT was used on someone quite close to me in the 1970s and was surprised to discover it was still used for depression in the 1980s. 
Sheila's withdrawal before the killings at WHF can't have had anything to do with the effects of ECT, even if she had been treated that way, it would have been a long time before.  She was ok the night of the party Steve as you keep pointing out so why would she suddenly develop such a reaction out of the blue?

It's the Defence who insist Sheila had a psychotic episode in the early hours of Wednesday morning with no evidence whatsoever. All I'm saying is that Jeremy claimed in a statement to Police that Sheila had been in receipt of ECT and that Sheila's vacant stare and behaviour may have been a symptom of it.

[lookout]

It's the Defence who insist Sheila had a psychotic evidence in the early hours of Wednesday morning with no evidence whatsoever. All I'm saying is that Jeremy claimed in a statement to Police that Sheila had been in receipt of ECT and that Sheila's vacant stare and behaviour may have been a symptom of it.

Steve,,there was never a statement from doctor Ferguson,,or any of the consultant psychiatrists saying that Sheila had ECT,,or it would have been indicated.