Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985

[maggie]

Sheila never even took up a kitchen knife,let alone sprayed her sons' bodies with bullets in an arc pattern. Of course Sheila was ill,nobody is saying she wasn't,just the evidence points to her being incapable of executing these murders in the way it has been alleged.

As far as we know Sheila never 'took up a kitchen knife' and neither did Jeremy.

[Jane]

Sheila never even took up a kitchen knife,let alone sprayed her sons' bodies with bullets in an arc pattern. Of course Sheila was ill,nobody is saying she wasn't,just the evidence points to her being incapable of executing these murders in the way it has been alleged.

That's just it Steve. Despite your opinions, there's NO evidence to say she didn't.

[Steve_uk]

Why no bloodied footprints in Sheila's room? Why not one drop of blood if JB had shot and killed 4 people before going to her room.

They were all non-contact crimes apart from the struggle for the rifle in the kitchen during which Jeremy wore gloves. Once they were all dead Jeremy could play the innocent party in front of Sheila in those few seconds it took him to open her door,get her out and lead her to her death like a lamb to the slaughter.

[lookout]

Not all p schizophrenics hear voices, we dont know all Sheila's symptoms. However her delusions and paranoa were real enough. Because she had reacted one way to Nevill before does not mean she always would due to the nature of her illness. Having a sheila with a gun may have caused Nevill to ask Jeremy for backup but no doubt he never believed she would actually use it as he didnt understand the dangers of sheila's illness. I would guess she shot and badly injured Nevill,, shortly after the phone call to Jeremy and before he had any idea she would do such a thing imo

It's the way I see it too Maggie. This girl/woman I know is very clever at hiding her illness,,to the extent that people who know her and the family,,,,don't believe what the family have to say.! It's difficult as there's no " performance " when anyone is around. Even the police didn't believe what I was telling them,,as they asked if she heard voices,,and because I said not to my knowledge,,I felt in the end as though it was me who was making things up,,as they more or less said that if she wasn't hearing voices,then she was alright. What do they know.? Yet she flew out of the hospital just as the psychiatrist was about to section her. I give up.
Sufferers are so crafty,Maggie.

[maggie]

But why did Nevill hang up his only lifeline if as Jeremy said "my father sounded terrified when he called". Why leave June and the twins alone upstairs and why use the kitchen phone when one of the others would have been nearer?

We dont know for sure if he used the kitchen phone to ring Jeremy.  The receiver of the phone in the kitchen could have been removed anytime later in the morning. We dont know Neville may have been in the kitchen. Sheila may have locked herself in the downstairs toilet for all we know.......

[Steve_uk]

As far as we know Sheila never 'took up a kitchen knife' and neither did Jeremy.

No but we know Jeremy fired guns at Gresham's and gained a modicum of status by doing so. We also know shortly before the murders he fancied himself as a country squire and enquired about owning a 12 bore shotgun,all this before we even consider Nevill's conversation with farm secretary Barbara Wilson.

[maggie]

No but we know Jeremy fired guns at Grsham's and gained a modicum of status by doing so. We also know shortly before the murders he fancied himself as a country squire and enquired about owning a 12 bore shotgun,all this before we even consider Nevill's conversation with farm secretary Barbara Wilson.

Jeremy may have fancied a 12 bore shotgun, well that meant nothing. He had grown up with guns as part of life. Other people he knew had shotguns. He didnt buy one. If it had anything to do with anything why announce it to the Eatons. 
Steve could you explain to me why Jeremy was trusted with all the guns in WHF including shot
guns. Why did Nevill not lock his guns away if he had the slightest suspicion Jeremy was a
danger.  Its like saying Jeremy sneezed two weeks before the deaths therefore he must have done it. Its all irrelevant....

[Steve_uk]

We dont know for sure if he used the kitchen phone to ring Jeremy.  The receiver of the phone in the kitchen could have been removed anytime later in the morning. We dont know Neville may have been in the kitchen. Sheila may have locked herself in the downstairs toilet for all we know.......

It's pretty certain Nevill had been in the kitchen with those bloodied prints on the blue and white chequered worktop which look as if they're from a man's hand. Who else could have made the droplets of blood in the sink area?

[Steve_uk]

Jeremy may have fancied a 12 bore shotgun, well that meant nothing. He had grown up with guns as part of life. Other people he knew had shotguns. He didnt buy one. If it had anything to do with anything why announce it to the Eatons. 
Steve could you explain to me why Jeremy was trusted with all the guns in WHF including shot
guns. Why did Nevill not lock his guns away if he had the slightest suspicion Jeremy was a
danger.  Its like saying Jeremy sneezed two weeks before the deaths therefore he must have done it. Its all irrelevant....

I think Nevill was losing trust fast in Jeremy and Jeremy may have sensed his window of opportunity was escaping. Didn't Barbara Wilson say she'd had terrible premonitions during her holiday week?

[Jane]

No but we know Jeremy fired guns at Gresham's and gained a modicum of status by doing so. We also know shortly before the murders he fancied himself as a country squire and enquired about owning a 12 bore shotgun,all this before we even consider Nevill's conversation with farm secretary Barbara Wilson.

And much of that conversation didn't involve Jeremy, What did is now famous for it's ambiguity.

[Jane]

I think Nevill was losing trust fast in Jeremy and Jeremy may have sensed his window of opportunity was escaping. Didn't Barbara Wilson say she'd had terrible premonitions during her holiday week?

She did, but the conversation which had led to it mentioned "they" If you insist that he was referring to Jeremy, perhaps he also meant Julie.

[Steve_uk]

Where is Barbara Wilson's second statement to Police? It's not in the archives..

[mike tesko]

There was a suggestion I read somewhere that one of the twins may have been buried with bullets still inside him.

It's not a suggestion, its a fact...

[lookout]

Jeremy may have fancied a 12 bore shotgun, well that meant nothing. He had grown up with guns as part of life. Other people he knew had shotguns. He didnt buy one. If it had anything to do with anything why announce it to the Eatons. 
Steve could you explain to me why Jeremy was trusted with all the guns in WHF including shot
guns. Why did Nevill not lock his guns away if he had the slightest suspicion Jeremy was a
danger.  Its like saying Jeremy sneezed two weeks before the deaths therefore he must have done it. Its all irrelevant....

Do you know what.? In my own opinion,,I don't think Jeremy was particularly keen on guns,,but just felt he wanted to be " one of the lads who owned one ". He wasn't forever out shooting,,instead,his leisure was entertaining women. The time he showed interest in rifles was during AP's visit a week before the tragedy,,and I think that was an act of showing off between them,,as to who had the best rifle,,and apart from that,,I don't think Jeremy had much interest in them.
No disrespects to Jeremy,,but I don't even think he enjoyed getting his hands dirty on the farm.He doesn't strike me as being that sort of chap,,,hence the bar jobs,a different scene altogether.
Therefore,he wasn't likely to kill and be faced with all the blood and gore that a murder scene presents. I honestly think he'd have ran a mile at such a sight.
If he'd have committed that crime,,he'd certainly be a different character than he is,if he hadn't topped himself years ago.
I know it's a " soap " and make-believe,,but the actions of the guy in Coronation Street could be real in those who've committed a crime and didn't confess.

[maggie]

It's pretty certain Nevill had been in the kitchen with those bloodied prints on the blue and white chequered worktop which look as if they're from a man's hand. Who else could have made the droplets of blood in the sink area?

That could have been later steve, when he died there.