I was thinking about the scratch marks under the Aga shelf

[Steve_uk]

Can you really see them all sitting round that small,cramped table discussing adoption of the twins? Why not move into the lounge? Jeremy says Sheila was vacant not saying very much except that she would rather stay in London. There were apparently no signs of an argument when Jeremy left at 10pm,though we know that Nevill was short with Barbara Wilson at 9:30pm so this is yet another of Jeremy's lies.

[lookout]

Oh,,okay,thanks. Just thought it could have been something that got hot and was used to burn Nevilles' neck when pulled out.Obviously not. ( I'm not familiar with Agas' )

[maggie]

Can you really see them all sitting round that small,cramped table discussing adoption of the twins? Why not move into the lounge? Jeremy says Sheila was vacant not saying very much except that she would rather stay in London. There were apparently no signs of an argument when Jeremy left at 10pm,though we know that Nevill was short with Barbara Wilson at 9:30pm so this is yet another of Jeremy's lies.

That's exactly where I would expect them to sit, Steve.  For a start Neville hadn't finished work, no doubt still had his work clothes and boots on.  They would eat and talk at that table every day I should imagine. Oh, they were discussing day fostering, or live in help for Sheila with the children.....not adoption.  Why did Jeremy state they were calm, not arguing?  If he wanted to blame Sheila and use her as an alibi, surely it would have been in his interest to claim she was angry and protesting?  Neville was a bit short with Barbara Wilson for whatever reason, maybe because they were discussing a worrying problem like how to help their seriously mentally ill daughter..... it proves nothing. imo

[Alias]

That's exactly where I would expect them to sit, Steve.  For a start Neville hadn't finished work, no doubt still had his work clothes and boots on.  They would eat and talk at that table every day I should imagine. Oh, they were discussing day fostering, or live in help for Sheila with the children.....not adoption.  Why did Jeremy state they were calm, not arguing?  If he wanted to blame Sheila and use her as an alibi, surely it would have been in his interest to claim she was angry and protesting?  Neville was a bit short with Barbara Wilson for whatever reason, maybe because they were discussing a worrying problem like how to help their seriously mentally ill daughter..... it proves nothing. imo

Exactly.
I have never understood why people find it unlikely that the discussion was about forstering the boys. It had been done before successfully and worked well for all, yes, DAY fostering. In fact, it is very likely they talked about that.

[Steve_uk]

That's exactly where I would expect them to sit, Steve.  For a start Neville hadn't finished work, no doubt still had his work clothes and boots on.  They would eat and talk at that table every day I should imagine. Oh, they were discussing day fostering, or live in help for Sheila with the children.....not adoption.  Why did Jeremy state they were calm, not arguing?  If he wanted to blame Sheila and use her as an alibi, surely it would have been in his interest to claim she was angry and protesting?  Neville was a bit short with Barbara Wilson for whatever reason, maybe because they were discussing a worrying problem like how to help their seriously mentally ill daughter..... it proves nothing. imo

Jeremy couldn't think of any story to put into Sheila's mouth apart from she wanted to stay in London. In any case his maxim was to "tell the truth wherever possible" not to assist you understand,but to obfuscate and make his version of events appear feasible when in fact it's plain from the moment he unscrewed the sights from the gun which Sheila would never have had a reason to do he was minded to murder.

[Steve_uk]

Exactly.
I have never understood why people find it unlikely that the discussion was about forstering the boys. It had been done before successfully and worked well for all, yes, DAY fostering. In fact, it is very likely they talked about that.

That's fine but that wasn't what Jeremy said. To foster animosity between the parties when he would be well away from the scene albeit temporarily he suggested that June wanted a role in adopting the twins.

[Alias]

That's fine but that wasn't what Jeremy said. To foster animosity between the parties when he would be well away from the scene albeit temporarily he suggested that June wanted a role in adopting the twins.

Where can I see that?

[lookout]

That's fine but that wasn't what Jeremy said. To foster animosity between the parties when he would be well away from the scene albeit temporarily he suggested that June wanted a role in adopting the twins.

No disrespects to the deceased,,but June wasn't getting any younger and she was probably scared at the prospect,,at her age,,of having to look after two little children as well as running a large house,and also worrying over Sheilas' deteriorating health,,,,plus her own health problems as well.
The only answer was temporary foster care for the children to give them all a break. The onus wouldn't/shouldn't have fallen on June,,when those boys still had a father.
June proved that her state of health wouldn't even allow her to be a full-time mother to Sheila and Jeremy when they were young,,,so she certainly wasn't going to attempt the job at turned 60.

I would say that the discussion round the dinner table reached fever pitch,,and because it did,Jeremy hopped it home for some peace and quiet. Sheila may have initially been quiet and calm,,,but don't let the mood fool you,,as it would have changed the minute Jeremy turned his back.

[Alias]

Ever heard the expression, calm before the storm...
Her withdrawn and quiet disposition that evening doesn´t tell us a thing in fact, and as was pointed out earlier, WHY didn´t Jeremy say that Sheila had seemed upset, even angry? That would have bolstered his alleged story, not saying that she was quiet.

[mertol22]

There are methods to date and compare scratches the location of the scratch offers some thoughts i can think of a few.

[Steve_uk]

Ever heard the expression, calm before the storm...
Her withdrawn and quiet disposition that evening doesn´t tell us a thing in fact, and as was pointed out earlier, WHY didn´t Jeremy say that Sheila had seemed upset, even angry? That would have bolstered his alleged story, not saying that she was quiet.

It's a good thing he didn't because when Auntie Pam telephoned at 10pm she described Sheila as quiet and not her usual self..June said Sheila was off to bed which I contend is exactly what she did do.

[Steve_uk]

Where can I see that?

He told Colin that first morning at Bourtree Cottage. Colin immediately saw it for the lie that it was. It will be in that first statement of Jeremy's.

[vidvic]

That's fine but that wasn't what Jeremy said. To foster animosity between the parties when he would be well away from the scene albeit temporarily he suggested that June wanted a role in adopting the twins.

Absolutely Steve. Bamber implied fostering in the sense most people think of it, a form of semi-permanent care. As Colin had custody this wasn't an issue anyway at that point. It was only later that people have implied he meant day fostering.

[maggie]

It's a good thing he didn't because when Auntie Pam telephoned at 10pm she described Sheila as quiet and not her usual self..June said Sheila was off to bed which I contend is exactly what she did do.

So you still refuse to accept that Sheila's withdrawn state was a classic  sign of a pending psychotic attack? 

[lookout]

No disrespects to the deceased,,but June wasn't getting any younger and she was probably scared at the prospect,,at her age,,of having to look after two little children as well as running a large house,and also worrying over Sheilas' deteriorating health,,,,plus her own health problems as well.
The only answer was temporary foster care for the children to give them all a break. The onus wouldn't/shouldn't have fallen on June,,when those boys still had a father.
June proved that her state of health wouldn't even allow her to be a full-time mother to Sheila and Jeremy when they were young,,,so she certainly wasn't going to attempt the job at turned 60.

I would say that the discussion round the dinner table reached fever pitch,,and because it did,Jeremy hopped it home for some peace and quiet. Sheila may have initially been quiet and calm,,,but don't let the mood fool you,,as it would have changed the minute Jeremy turned his back.

It annoys me intensely that Colin wasn't as supportive as he could have been.That he even accepted fostering or adoption as a solution, to his own flesh and blood. I don't rate him at all,,,and he only wrote a book to clear his conscience. Those children were passed from pillar to post while their father was taken up with his new girlfriend. I just find it despicable as nobody gave a damn for those boys. It was all about everyone elses' feelings,,,not theirs.  I bet nobody asked them what they wanted.