I was thinking about the scratch marks under the Aga shelf

[Patti]

Last night I was laid in bed and was wondering about the scratch marks underneath the shelf of the aga.  If you note there is a mitred piece of architraving that sits within the joint under the shelf.  Also note the blue and white cuff of a jacket of some sort in the photo.

We know NB at this point was in considerable pain and must have been bleeding heavily. Two to his jaw and one in the left shoulder and left arm, making this arm unusable.

Look at the aga and on the floor....Surely if there was a struggle in the midline of the Aga then there would be some sort of blood evidence to back this up....Why were they looking for red pain was my thought, when the is clear evidence that there is lack of blood....

However, NB could only have used his right arm, so we have to bare in mind at what position he may have been standing, but this to me does not make any sense....unless? 

 

 

[lookout]

Simply because the marks were done after the event,Patti,,,for reasons that we probably won't ever find out about.

[Patti]

Simply because the marks were done after the event,Patti,,,for reasons that we probably won't ever find out about.

Hi Lookout

Those marks could have been done anytime, there is no proof the silencer made those makes...on that said night.

If they had the silencer in the kitchen when scraping were made from the aga then who is to say that it was not contaminated at the point. The kitchen table is directly in front of the aga.....If there was a struggle, then where is the blood to back this up? 

[lookout]

Hi Lookout

Those marks could have been done anytime, there is no proof the silencer made those makes...on that said night.

If they had the silencer in the kitchen when scraping were made from the aga then who is to say that it was not contaminated at the point. The kitchen table is directly in front of the aga.....If there was a struggle, then where is the blood to back this up? 

That's right,Patti,,no proof at all,,,and as for " the struggle ".What struggle.? Any bruising.? No.

[Patti]

That's right,Patti,,no proof at all,,,and as for " the struggle ".What struggle.? Any bruising.? No.

He did have bruising Lookout, he was violently murdered....but both Sheila nor Jeremy showed any signs of bruises or marks from any struggle...none that I have seen documented anyway. 

[lookout]

He did have bruising Lookout, he was violently murdered....but both Sheila nor Jeremy showed any signs of bruises or marks from any struggle...none that I have seen documented anyway. 

Sorry,Patti,,that's who I meant,,Sheila and Jeremy.

[Patti]

Sorry,Patti,,that's who I meant,,Sheila and Jeremy.

That's OK, I misread it, like I often do..lol 

[Alias]

Patti, this is an extremely good point you make here. No blood except exactly where poor Nevill was resting (who put him there - why the pillows on the floor?) The Aga itself is white, the carpet is not dark. You would expect there to be some blood spatter.

[lookout]

Patti, this is an extremely good point you make here. No blood except exactly where poor Nevill was resting (who put him there - why the pillows on the floor?) The Aga itself is white, the carpet is not dark. You would expect there to be some blood spatter.

Because there was so much blood on June,,do you think that before things got so heated,that June went downstairs and helped her husband as he may possibly have lost his balance so between them he settled on the chair on which he was found.?
How come that June was the more " bloodied " anyway.?

[Patti]

Patti, this is an extremely good point you make here. No blood except exactly where poor Nevill was resting (who put him there - why the pillows on the floor?) The Aga itself is white, the carpet is not dark. You would expect there to be some blood spatter.

Hi Alias

I've always questioned the cushions. I even thought they ha been placed there for the dog, but then dog has its own basket and I would think with it being summer and the Aga was on, that it would be too hot for a dog...

You think allsorts when you are trying to sleep...You would expect some blood to have gotten on the Aga and the floor, even the top of the table, but there is nothing I can see...There is a black smudge on the carpet, but nothing down the front of the Aga....which is unusual, if there had been a struggle taking place there...it doesn't make sense, but then again nothing makes sense in this case...

[Bridget]

So given that we know what injuries were sustained are you suggesting that Neville was attacked elsewhere?

[Alias]

So given that we know what injuries were sustained are you suggesting that Neville was attacked elsewhere?

I know you are not asking me, but I got that thought reflecting upon Patti´s brilliant observation. It is so obvious, but I don´t recall this being discussed. I am probably wrong, EVERYTHING has been discussed. Mike, has this been up on the forum at any time??
We don´t know where the table was upon entry of the raid team, but as it stands on the photo, true, there isn´t that much room for a fight. Lampshade was broken - I know, where was the lamp, anybody know?

[Patti]

So given that we know what injuries were sustained are you suggesting that Neville was attacked elsewhere?

Not really, but it has crossed my mind.  There is an awful lot of blood where Nevill came to rest, poor man..so that suggests he was attacked there, sadly.

Bridget zoom in on the floor in the kitchen, there isn't much trace evidence there. A few drops near the phone, some in front of the sink and near the buckets...nothing major at all....Also bare in mind that only 3 shell cases were found in the kitchen...yet Nevill had 4 fatal head wounds...I know it has been suggested that one of the raid team could have transferred one of the casing under his shoe....but what if he didn't....How did NB come to be downstairs in the position he died....He could not have walked there if one of his fatal wounds were received upstairs....

If you look at the shot distances by Fletcher you will see that almost two of the shots made in the kitchen were from 1 foot away....but there is hardly any back spatter, like there is in the main bedroom....baring in mind though that 3 people were shot in that room, but back spatter is everywhere.  Its sad to talk about really at times...

[lookout]

What's that pokey thing sticking out of the bottom of the Aga.? Does it come out.?

[Bridget]

Not really, but it has crossed my mind.  There is an awful lot of blood where Nevill came to rest, poor man..so that suggests he was attacked there, sadly.

Bridget zoom in on the floor in the kitchen, there isn't much trace evidence there. A few drops near the phone, some in front of the sink and near the buckets...nothing major at all....Also bare in mind that only 3 shell cases were found in the kitchen...yet Nevill had 4 fatal head wounds...I know it has been suggested that one of the raid team could have transferred one of the casing under his shoe....but what if he didn't....How did NB come to be downstairs in the position he died....He could not have walked there if one of his fatal wounds were received upstairs....

If you look at the shot distances by Fletcher you will see that almost two of the shots made in the kitchen were from 1 foot away....but there is hardly any back spatter, like there is in the main bedroom....baring in mind though that 3 people were shot in that room, but back spatter is everywhere.  Its sad to talk about really at times...

I think if he was fatally wounded elsewhere there'd be blood evidence indicating that he'd been moved. Also IIRC the pathologist said that hypostasis was consistent with him having died as he was found.

What's that pokey thing sticking out of the bottom of the Aga.? Does it come out.?

A drain tap for draining the boiler.