"All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"

[lookout]

Morning Patti

That's an interesting theory ie NB not going to bed on the night/fell asleep in his chair but it does look like there's an indentation on his pillow and that the covers have been moved back as they do when you get out    Is there any truth in NB sleeping another room?  I've always thought there was some sort of confrontation most likely downstairs with SC before any shots were fired.  For the 4 murders/1 suicide theory this has to have been the case as it appears it would have been impossible for NB to speak on the phone after the 4 less serious shots he received in the bedroom    Also he would not have phoned JB had anyone been wounded.  SC would often phone NB late at night/early morning in a distressed state so it seems entirely plausible to me that if she was in the same house she might well have wanted to talk to him about the same time.  Residents at Morsehead Mansions are on record as saying SC would wake early hours shouting.  So if she did this at WHF it seems a run of the mill scenario where NB would simply try and calm her down.  Only difference being no guns at Morsehead Mansion and plenty at WHF 

Do you know if it was possible to use the phones internally eg someone in the kitchen could talk to someone in the main bedroom?

NN,,yes you could use the phones like an intercom system by lifting up the receiver and giving a couple of press's to the metal button which would be heard by any other phone. This was handy if the place was on 3 floors.

[killingeve]

I thought ngb has said a moderator wouldn't really make any difference to the human ear with an anchultz .22 because it was a very quiet gun with no recoil but would be more effective when shooting animals.. However I may be totally wrong about that.

Morning Maggie

Yes I think NGB did say words to this effect.  The jury sort of heard for themselves when they were taken to the shooting range (outside) that there was very little difference with and without the silencer. They asked what the difference in sound would be inside but I can't recall the precise answer I'll have to check back.  In any event it amounted to little difference.  Seems crazy to me that the jury were not taken to a building to hear the sounds inside as I'm sure the military/police must have such a facility for training 

[Patti]

Morning Patti

That's an interesting theory ie NB not going to bed on the night/fell asleep in his chair but it does look like there's an indentation on his pillow and that the covers have been moved back as they do when you get out    Is there any truth in NB sleeping another room?  I've always thought there was some sort of confrontation most likely downstairs with SC before any shots were fired.  For the 4 murders/1 suicide theory this has to have been the case as it appears it would have been impossible for NB to speak on the phone after the 4 less serious shots he received in the bedroom    Also he would not have phoned JB had anyone been wounded.  SC would often phone NB late at night/early morning in a distressed state so it seems entirely plausible to me that if she was in the same house she might well have wanted to talk to him about the same time.  Residents at Morsehead Mansions are on record as saying SC would wake early hours shouting.  So if she did this at WHF it seems a run of the mill scenario where NB would simply try and calm her down.  Only difference being no guns at Morsehead Mansion and plenty at WHF 

Do you know if it was possible to use the phones internally eg someone in the kitchen could talk to someone in the main bedroom?

I think you right, the bed does look as if it had been slept in.....and we do know that NB was shot 4 times upstairs.  Ok, then, what if he was woken up by Sheila and went downstairs leaving June fast asleep.  We do know that poor June was laid down when she was shot, but we don't know if she was asleep....you would have thought she would have been in a different position if she was awake? Maybe?

So could have NB been awaken by Sheila, then gone downstairs...Maybe the poor lass was in the same frame of mind like she was with Freddie. But if this was the case then why didn't June wake up? I don't know if you can hear stuff going on in the kitchen from the bedrooms upstairs....I would like to know about the noise level....I would think because of the size of the house and the way it was built and the distance from the kitchen to the master bedroom, it would be difficult to hear any conversation. But. I am not sure.

Don't know if the phones could be used internally......

[ngb1066]

Hi Maggie

You are correct it was a sound moderator and that is different from a silencer.  I'm glad you picked up on that...I'm like you Maggie, I don't believe the silencer was used at all....it would serve no purpose. 

I am afraid that is wrong.  This is an error contained in the "official" JB website, along with others there about this item.  The terms sound moderator, silencer and suppressor are interchangeable.  I have pointed this out before and have discussed it with JB but for some reason the myth remains.  The police in the UK use the term sound moderator, so that was the term used on Nevill's Firearm Certificate.  The design of the Parker Hale sound moderator is based on the original Maxim design for what he called the silencer.

[ngb1066]

I thought ngb has said a moderator wouldn't really make any difference to the human ear with an anchultz .22 because it was a very quiet gun with no recoil but would be more effective when shooting animals.. However I may be totally wrong about that.

It does make some difference to the sound produced by firing the rifle, particularly if subsonic ammunition is used.  However the sound is not very high, it reduces the mild "crack" to more of a "click".

 

[Jane]

I think you right, the bed does look as if it had been slept in.....and we do know that NB was shot 4 times upstairs.  Ok, then, what if he was woken up by Sheila and went downstairs leaving June fast asleep.  We do know that poor June was laid down when she was shot, but we don't know if she was asleep....you would have thought she would have been in a different position if she was awake? Maybe?

So could have NB been awaken by Sheila, then gone downstairs...Maybe the poor lass was in the same frame of mind like she was with Freddie. But if this was the case then why didn't June wake up? I don't know if you can hear stuff going on in the kitchen from the bedrooms upstairs....I would like to know about the noise level....I would think because of the size of the house and the way it was built and the distance from the kitchen to the master bedroom, it would be difficult to hear any conversation. But. I am not sure.

Don't know if the phones could be used internally......

Patti, HI. Your scenario would work very well if we have Nevill in bed hearing Sheila talking /having a conversation as she goes down stairs. As he had previously been able to calm her, it's unlikely that June would have seen the necessity to go downstairs with him. It then makes it possible for the uncalmed Sheila to go back upstairs with the gun that she has picked up, Nevill makes the call to Jeremy, follows Sheila who may atby this time have started using it. By leaving the room and going back down stairs he may have been thinking to draw fire, which he may actually have managed. Back upstairs, June, wounded and in shock may then have managed to crawl across the room towards the door. Maybe she was trying to get to the boys.

[maggie]

It does make some difference to the sound produced by firing the rifle, particularly if subsonic ammunition is used.  However the sound is not very high, it reduces the mild "crack" to more of a "click".

Thanks ngb.

[killingeve]

I think you right, the bed does look as if it had been slept in.....and we do know that NB was shot 4 times upstairs.  Ok, then, what if he was woken up by Sheila and went downstairs leaving June fast asleep.  We do know that poor June was laid down when she was shot, but we don't know if she was asleep....you would have thought she would have been in a different position if she was awake? Maybe?

So could have NB been awaken by Sheila, then gone downstairs...Maybe the poor lass was in the same frame of mind like she was with Freddie. But if this was the case then why didn't June wake up? I don't know if you can hear stuff going on in the kitchen from the bedrooms upstairs....I would like to know about the noise level....I would think because of the size of the house and the way it was built and the distance from the kitchen to the master bedroom, it would be difficult to hear any conversation. But. I am not sure.

Don't know if the phones could be used internally......

I thought it was only confirmed that June was shot whilst sat upright in bed not whilst laying? 

Lookout thinks the phones could be used internally.  If this is the case SC might have phoned NB from the kitchen, or another room, to the main bedroom as was the norm when she phoned from Morsehead Manions ie she phoned NB in a distressed state late at night/early hours.  She may have made several calls.  If so why and when was the phone in the main bedroom moved?   Perhaps to avoid waking June?  June was apparently a light sleeper.

My experience of properties similar to WHF is that sound is minimal from one room to another due to the thick walls/materials used.  No Wimpy internal plasterboard walls 

[lookout]

Psychotic woman drowned her two children and herself in an icy river in Indiana because she thought her family were being haunted by demons. A bible was found close by inside a childs' harness.
This is part-news in the Mail.I will read further to see if there are any other significent clues/signs that were similar to how Sheilas' illness was. The husband is in denial at the moment.

[Patti]

I am afraid that is wrong.  This is an error contained in the "official" JB website, along with others there about this item.  The terms sound moderator, silencer and suppressor are interchangeable.  I have pointed this out before and have discussed it with JB but for some reason the myth remains.  The police in the UK use the term sound moderator, so that was the term used on Nevill's Firearm Certificate.  The design of the Parker Hale sound moderator is based on the original Maxim design for what he called the silencer.

Hi NGB

Thank you for clearing that up ....The official website is where I got that information from.   

[lookout]

Psychotic woman drowned her two children and herself in an icy river in Indiana because she thought her family were being haunted by demons. A bible was found close by inside a childs' harness.
This is part-news in the Mail.I will read further to see if there are any other significent clues/signs that were similar to how Sheilas' illness was. The husband is in denial at the moment.

The poor woman suffered post-partum depression,and police said she had a serious mental illness,,to which her husband hadn't noticed.! The children were aged 10 and 6 months. No drugs were found in the womans body,,,but it's thought that her condition was exacerbated by the cold temperatures to where they had moved to. Poor soul had previously told police that she was being stalked by demons.

[Patti]

I thought it was only confirmed that June was shot whilst sat upright in bed not whilst laying? 

Lookout thinks the phones could be used internally.  If this is the case SC might have phoned NB from the kitchen, or another room, to the main bedroom as was the norm when she phoned from Morsehead Manions ie she phoned NB in a distressed state late at night/early hours.  She may have made several calls.  If so why and when was the phone in the main bedroom moved?   Perhaps to avoid waking June?  June was apparently a light sleeper.

My experience of properties similar to WHF is that sound is minimal from one room to another due to the thick walls/materials used.  No Wimpy internal plasterboard walls 

Hi NN

If you read the Mcdonnell report the blood pattern that is on the pillow, is where she lifted herself up off the pillow after being shot, The bullet went through her neck and into the pillow as she was laying.

I'm inclined to think that noise level would have been minimum in a old house like that.  Maybe Shelia went down for something to eat....One thing is for sure, I don't think a row broke out between her and her mother, because June was lying down in a sleeping position, had she woken then she might not have been in that position......

I can't see any evidence to suggest that NB was shot in his bed, but we do know he had a downward shot to his shoulder, thus being that the killer was in a higher position at the time he received that shoulder shot, this is why I believe this was done on the stairs....One case shell was found there which could back that theory up? So if that;s the case then the other three shots were fired in the master bedroom...

The only thing that bugs me, is that there were only 3 case shells found in the kitchen and he had 4 fatal shots to the head in the kitchen.  There are no missing case shells they all add up, so how did one of the case shells end up upstairs in the main bedroom.  Its been suggested that one of the raid team carried the shell under his boot....if that is the case then it surprises me that the case shell left the boot in the main bedroom and not anywhere else in the house..... I'm rambling lol

[Jane]

Patti, HI. Your scenario would work very well if we have Nevill in bed hearing Sheila talking /having a conversation as she goes down stairs. As he had previously been able to calm her, it's unlikely that June would have seen the necessity to go downstairs with him. It then makes it possible for the uncalmed Sheila to go back upstairs with the gun that she has picked up, Nevill makes the call to Jeremy, follows Sheila who may atby this time have started using it. By leaving the room and going back down stairs he may have been thinking to draw fire, which he may actually have managed. Back upstairs, June, wounded and in shock may then have managed to crawl across the room towards the door. Maybe she was trying to get to the boys.

Patti, if Nevill was running downstairs in order to deflect Sheila from firing at June, his upper body wounds make sense.

[lookout]

Wasn't a metal detector used to find the missing shell/s.?

[Lugg]

It does make some difference to the sound produced by firing the rifle, particularly if subsonic ammunition is used.  However the sound is not very high, it reduces the mild "crack" to more of a "click".

So for anyone who does not know this about silencers might be influenced to use one, since quite a lot of people are under the impression that it will make the gun quieter?