Author Topic: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"  (Read 130551 times)

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Offline Alias

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2013, 07:38:PM »
I'm afraid Alias much of what we hear about with regard to Sheila is entirely consistent with an attachment disorder eg bullied at school, poor peer relationships, under-achieving at school, seeing the world and others as hostile, inability to form stable intimate relationships, use of recreational drugs, inability to self-regulate (Freddie said would lose temper very, very easily) depression, thoughts of suicide  :(

http://www.attachmentexperts.com/whatisattachment.html

You forgot Schizophrenia. It is very common for schizophrenics to see people around them as evil. and yes, as devils.

Offline killingeve

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2013, 07:56:PM »
You forgot Schizophrenia. It is very common for schizophrenics to see people around them as evil. and yes, as devils.

No I didn't forget it I'm just not convinced she had schizophrenia for many reasons.

Offline lookout

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2013, 08:01:PM »
No I didn't forget it I'm just not convinced she had schizophrenia for many reasons.


Do you think she was pulling a fast one,NN.?

Offline Alias

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2013, 08:08:PM »
No I didn't forget it I'm just not convinced she had schizophrenia for many reasons.

Her diagnosis was Schizophrenia, and her behavioural pattern fits that diagnosis, she responded to medication used to ease symptoms of that illness, so I have no reason to doubt that, I respectfully disagree.

Offline Patti

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2013, 08:17:PM »
No I didn't forget it I'm just not convinced she had schizophrenia for many reasons.

What are those reasons??????

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2013, 08:53:PM »
I'm afraid Alias much of what we hear about with regard to Sheila is entirely consistent with an attachment disorder eg bullied at school, poor peer relationships, under-achieving at school, seeing the world and others as hostile, inability to form stable intimate relationships, use of recreational drugs, inability to self-regulate (Freddie said would lose temper very, very easily) depression, thoughts of suicide  :(

http://www.attachmentexperts.com/whatisattachment.html
Funny,I thought you were discussing Jeremy's character traits and curriculum vitae until you got to the suicide part. Then I knew it wasn't him.

Offline maggie

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2013, 09:55:PM »
Her diagnosis was Schizophrenia, and her behavioural pattern fits that diagnosis, she responded to medication used to ease symptoms of that illness, so I have no reason to doubt that, I respectfully disagree.
I understand that a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia relies on the presentation of particular symptoms. Paranoid schizophrenia is an umberella term for any illness with these symptoms present. The path to those symptoms and the causes of them are all different therefore Sheila may have suffered from an attachment disorder which became scizophrenia when she developed those particular symptoms if you see what I mean?? Imo

Offline Alias

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2013, 10:18:PM »
I understand that a diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia relies on the presentation of particular symptoms. Paranoid schizophrenia is an umberella term for any illness with these symptoms present. The path to those symptoms and the causes of them are all different therefore Sheila may have suffered from an attachment disorder which became scizophrenia when she developed those particular symptoms if you see what I mean?? Imo
I do - could have happened in such a manner, even probably. Win-win for all on the board. I realize this is not a good term to use in this context, it just covers what I want to say in this instance.

Edit to add: You still cannot ignore Sheila´s diagnosis and call it a number of different things.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2013, 10:32:PM by Alias »

Offline killingeve

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2013, 08:06:AM »
Her diagnosis was Schizophrenia, and her behavioural pattern fits that diagnosis, she responded to medication used to ease symptoms of that illness, so I have no reason to doubt that, I respectfully disagree.

Morning Alias

As Maggie has explained schizophrenia was an umbrella term used to house a range of illnesses:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4287.msg175353.html#msg175353

If I look at the start of Sheila's life I see adoption.  Followed by June's mental illness caused by adopting Sheila.  = ? attachment disorder ?  If I look at the end of Sheila's life I see her reunion with her birth mother just weeks before the murders = ? adoption psychology ?  If I look inbetween I see much evidence for both.  Knowledge on attachment disorders, adoption psychology and neuroscience has come on leaps and bounds since the tragedy at WHF almost three decades ago. 

http://adoptionunchartedwaters.com/understanding-adoptees-who-kill.php

http://adoptionunchartedwaters.com/catathymic-violence.php

http://adoptionunchartedwaters.com/lossesinadoption.php

http://adoptionunchartedwaters.com/articleone.php

What of the psychiatrist who diagnosed schizophrenia?  Was he conflicted by treating the adoptive mother and adopted daughter?  Was it against the ethics/conduct of his professional body?  If it wasn't perhaps it should have been?

Most adoptees like Jeremy and myself turn out 'normal' but most don't suffer the double whammy of having the adoptive mother suffer severe depression due to her decision to adopt so much that she requires in-patient psychiatric care and ect!!!  :o :o :o

Offline killingeve

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2013, 08:24:AM »
Funny,I thought you were discussing Jeremy's character traits and curriculum vitae until you got to the suicide part. Then I knew it wasn't him.

I look for patterns.  Sadly there's a consistent pattern of behavioural, emotional and psychological issues with Sheila.  No such pattern exists for JB other than he used recreational drugs.  Not my bag personally but plenty of people use recreational drugs including judges and mp's etc.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2013, 08:26:PM »
I look for patterns.  Sadly there's a consistent pattern of behavioural, emotional and psychological issues with Sheila.  No such pattern exists for JB other than he used recreational drugs.  Not my bag personally but plenty of people use recreational drugs including judges and mp's etc.
This is a thread predominantly about Sheila and how right and comforting that the Jeremy supporters do this as it brings them solace as the twenty-eighth anniversary of the murders approaches. It is the defence's strongest card which was never used fully due to the mistakes of public schoolboys grown old,against another public schoolboy grown old who would have felt affinity with Nevill from their RAF days.

When I look at Jeremy dispassionately I see a lonely boy in most of the photographs(there's one particularly as a boy of about 8 or 9 taken I would assume at Gresham's as he looks slightly away from the camera)and I can see from there that he looks rather bewildered at the whole thing as he doesn't know where his place is in the world. Later of course he would come to realize that he was brought to the farm to work it,irrespective of whether he wanted to or not,and the growing realization that he was tied to the farm until his parents' death grew irrepressibly inside him. The pretext that his father was past his prime as can be seen in that dark,gross form with head in the coal bucket with long,straggly greasy hair visible gave him the justification for the execution of his family:it had been heretofore Nevill as the linchpin of the family which Jeremy as well as Sheila sensed and appreciated which in the past few months had disintegrated with his illness. It was fitting that Nevill was the only person whom Jeremy expressed a hint of regret to Julie at having killed.

As for Sheila she was a sick woman with schizophrenia and who knows what the outcome to her life would have been,what twists and turns she would have experienced in the vicissitudes of life,which would have at least been mitigated by the lenitive largesse of her parents' wills,which Jeremy was determined to override. As Dr. Ferguson stated Sheila had too much to live for,she might flit from one cause to another but she was curious and inquisitive about human nature,and realized that the divorce from Colin might after all have been a blessing in disguise as it had brought them closer together,as she also told Helen Grimster,though Jeremy only saw the malevolence in her words which he used for his own ends.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 08:29:PM by Steve_uk »

Caroline R

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2013, 08:37:PM »
Morning Alias

As Maggie has explained schizophrenia was an umbrella term used to house a range of illnesses:

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4287.msg175353.html#msg175353

If I look at the start of Sheila's life I see adoption.  Followed by June's mental illness caused by adopting Sheila.  = ? attachment disorder ?  If I look at the end of Sheila's life I see her reunion with her birth mother just weeks before the murders = ? adoption psychology ?  If I look inbetween I see much evidence for both.  Knowledge on attachment disorders, adoption psychology and neuroscience has come on leaps and bounds since the tragedy at WHF almost three decades ago. 

http://adoptionunchartedwaters.com/understanding-adoptees-who-kill.php

http://adoptionunchartedwaters.com/catathymic-violence.php

http://adoptionunchartedwaters.com/lossesinadoption.php

http://adoptionunchartedwaters.com/articleone.php

What of the psychiatrist who diagnosed schizophrenia?  Was he conflicted by treating the adoptive mother and adopted daughter?  Was it against the ethics/conduct of his professional body?  If it wasn't perhaps it should have been?

Most adoptees like Jeremy and myself turn out 'normal' but most don't suffer the double whammy of having the adoptive mother suffer severe depression due to her decision to adopt so much that she requires in-patient psychiatric care and ect!!!  :o :o :o

I came across this news story and thought you might be interested - Poor guy could never have imagined this kind of out-come!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/2740414/I-traced-my-dad-and-discovered-he-is-Charles-Manson.html

Lugg

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2013, 09:05:PM »
This is a thread predominantly about Sheila and how right and comforting that the Jeremy supporters do this as it brings them solace as the twenty-eighth anniversary of the murders approaches. It is the defence's strongest card which was never used fully due to the mistakes of public schoolboys grown old,against another public schoolboy grown old who would have felt affinity with Nevill from their RAF days.

When I look at Jeremy dispassionately I see a lonely boy in most of the photographs(there's one particularly as a boy of about 8 or 9 taken I would assume at Gresham's as he looks slightly away from the camera)and I can see from there that he looks rather bewildered at the whole thing as he doesn't know where his place is in the world. Later of course he would come to realize that he was brought to the farm to work it,irrespective of whether he wanted to or not,and the growing realization that he was tied to the farm until his parents' death grew irrepressibly inside him. The pretext that his father was past his prime as can be seen in that dark,gross form with head in the coal bucket with long,straggly greasy hair visible gave him the justification for the execution of his family:it had been heretofore Nevill as the linchpin of the family which Jeremy as well as Sheila sensed and appreciated which in the past few months had disintegrated with his illness. It was fitting that Nevill was the only person whom Jeremy expressed a hint of regret to Julie at having killed.

As for Sheila she was a sick woman with schizophrenia and who knows what the outcome to her life would have been,what twists and turns she would have experienced in the vicissitudes of life,which would have at least been mitigated by the lenitive largesse of her parents' wills,which Jeremy was determined to override. As Dr. Ferguson stated Sheila had too much to live for,she might flit from one cause to another but she was curious and inquisitive about human nature,and realized that the divorce from Colin might after all have been a blessing in disguise as it had brought them closer together,as she also told Helen Grimster,though Jeremy only saw the malevolence in her words which he used for his own ends.
I must say you have an extremely vivid imagination if you can deduce all that tripe from looking at a few pictures. ::)

Offline Alias

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2013, 09:47:PM »
I must say you have an extremely vivid imagination if you can deduce all that tripe from looking at a few pictures. ::)

It would make a world of difference if the flimsy, flowery assumptions, opinions and fictatious scribblings were accompanies by the occasional, "in my opinion", "I think", "possibly", "most likely" etc. etc. Lots to take from.

Offline killingeve

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Re: "All People Are Bad And Should Be Killed"
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2013, 11:08:PM »
I came across this news story and thought you might be interested - Poor guy could never have imagined this kind of out-come!!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/2740414/I-traced-my-dad-and-discovered-he-is-Charles-Manson.html

Hi Caroline

Thanks for that.  Poor man having to come to terms with that. 
 
I'm just grateful that when I searched out my birth parents and met them they were normal, decent people.  Even though the experiences were positive I still felt it had a big impact on me and was a huge shock going from knowing nothing to knowing everything.  Plus there was no counselling or any support then, I think it might be different now.  Can quite easily see how it could have tipped someone like Sheila over the edge especially given that it appears all had not been well in her upbringing etc.