Author Topic: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985  (Read 115931 times)

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Offline killingeve

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #570 on: May 03, 2013, 02:12:PM »
No, you said:

I was disagreeing with your assertion that anything in her statement was untrue.

I win because I asked I question and as a result learnt something today. You lose because your overall assertion that it is a crime to withhold evidence was wrong. But the overall winner is NGB, who nailed it (probably).

Miss Bridget


Miss Bridget has an eager looking pussy that wants stroking...purr...meow


I said I did not know about withholding.  I asserted that her statements contain more than omissions ie untruths which I highlighted.  You disagreed.  You don't know what questions I ask by pm  ;) 

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #571 on: May 03, 2013, 02:21:PM »
I'm afraid you've got carried away with your statement whoever you are;whilst making sense in the initial stages you drifted off into flights of fancy which make a mockery of your whole argument. It starts to go awry from the second paragraph after you assert that to be guilty Julie must "provide some positive assistance" when there was absolutely none to the Jeremy supporters' chagrin:she neither provided Jeremy with an alibi nor the infamous sleeping tablets which were for Julie's sole use during one of the most stressful periods of a teacher's career,namely teaching practice,and it is dishonourable of you if you hold a position in law to suggest otherwise. It was Jeremy who imported cannabis stuffed in toothpaste tubes from Amsterdam and not Julie,and though she sold the drug on university premises at Jeremy's behest this does not necessarily bar any teacher from a career;indeed there are male teachers who have abused female pupils who have appealed to the Secretary of State and have been further allowed to teach in an all-male environment,which I know anecdotally from colleagues.

On the day of the murders Julie was not warned in advance as you suggest;after a hard day's work she attempted to decipher yet another of Jeremy's riddles with the "tonight's the night..it's now or never" clue which was symptomatic of Jeremy's infantile manner of speaking for the two years she had known him with his "let's get the ball rolling" idiom used ad nauseum,his "bye honey,love you lots",his sending her roses and booking the bridal suite at a top London hotel interspersed with remarks of the crudest calibre,reminding us of Gresham's head Mr. Bruce Logie Lockhart's aphorism that Jeremy was "a relentless tease". If the head of a public school came to that conclusion then don't expect the product of an all girl's grammar school to be any the wiser in interpreting Jeremy's remarks.Post-murders we have Julie realizing that Jeremy did have a hand in the murders,whether he was the sole perpetrator or proxy driver,which as Mike suggested the" trick of the light story" gave rise to,but it was Julie who carried the guilt for both of them as the murders for Jeremy were not much different than swatting flies. You misrepresent the chronology because Julie told several people including the Bishop's and Michael Deckers the manager of the Frog and Beans before she voluntarily agreed to visit the Police. Had she not done so of course the trial would have proceeded without Julie on the basis of the silencer and blood evidence pushed by the relatives and going on the summing up of the judge Julie's evidence anyway would not have been paramount.

Steve_UK - I am not sure what I have done to deserve such a damning condemnation not only of my analysis of the legal position but also of my integrity.  I have, in response to Bridget's original request, provided a thumbnail sketch of the relevant criminal law and applied that to Julie Mugford in the context of her own witness statements and evidence.  I am at a loss to understand why you should condemn me as dishonourable simply for expressing my honest opinion.  I appreciate that you feel very defensive towards Julie Mugford (whether because you are related to her or otherwise is I accept none of my business).  I am happy to enter into a debate about the legal implications of her actions, but using phrases such as "flights of fancy" and claiming that I "make a mockery" of my whole argument does not I suggest further debate on this.

I believe you are straining credulity in your attempts to whitewash Julie's conduct.  The following are examples:

i) You have put an innocent spin on the episode of the sleeping tablets, but according to her own account Julie knew what Jeremy wanted them for and permitted him to use them.

ii) By her own admission Julie was involved in a joint enterprise with Jeremy and Brett Collins to import the cannabis from Amsterdam, most of which was to be supplied to others by Julie directly as well as by Jeremy. This was of course following the murders at a time when Julie was perfectly happy to accompany Jeremy on an expensive jaunt, on her account with full knowledge that he had wiped out his family.  If she was telling the truth it is crystal clear that she had effectively condoned the murders and was looking forward to spending the rest of her life with the murderer.

iii) You claim an intimate knowledge of Julie's mental processes the day before the murders, during the night  and immediately following.  You even suggest that because she attended all girls' grammar school she was unable to understand the meaning of the words she claims were spoken by Jeremy.  Are you serious?

iv) I do not misrepresent the chronology.  I accept that Julie spoke to friends, including Liz Rimington, after splitting up with Jeremy, dropping increasingly powerful hints that Jeremy was responsible for the murders.  However, she did not approach the police.  Liz Rimington called the police suggesting that Julie had information.  Julie was then arrested and held in custody.  The way this was presented at trial, essentially that tormented by guilt she decided to come forward and tell the truth, was grossly misleading.  She also lied to the prosecution, and therefore misled the judge, the defence and the jury, about her arrangements with the News of the World.

v)  I do not accept that Julie's evidence was "not paramount".  I also doubt whether the case would have proceeded to trial without Julie's evidence, but even if it had done so I have little doubt that Jeremy would have been acquitted.

I have no problem with being robustly challenged on any arguments I present but I do feel both the tone and content of your post was unfortunate.

 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 02:30:PM by ngb1066 »

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #572 on: May 03, 2013, 02:24:PM »
Does anyone here actually believe there is a chance JM is going to ever be charged with anything?

I very much doubt it, mainly because of the immunity granted to her. 


Offline susan

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #573 on: May 03, 2013, 02:26:PM »
Hello ngb  I think steve's post is both rude and insulting and he has shown himself in a very bad light on this forum.  He should be ashamed of himself.

Offline lookout

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #574 on: May 03, 2013, 02:27:PM »
Oh,,how I wish that I was educated to such a standard. Brilliant post,ngb. Bravo to you. A credit to the forum.

Offline tyler

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #575 on: May 03, 2013, 02:29:PM »
Well,if Mugford ommitted things from her first statement,she has failed to be truthful. Does failing to be truthful equal as being a lie? Bridget believed this was so in the case of Simon Hall,but not in the case of Julie Mugford. A tad hypocrytical me thinks!

Offline lookout

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #576 on: May 03, 2013, 02:34:PM »
I very much doubt it, mainly because of the immunity granted to her.


Ngb,,cannot that immunity ever be overturned ?

Offline killingeve

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #577 on: May 03, 2013, 02:34:PM »
Yes thank you again NGB for further clarification.  The forum and Jeremy are very lucky to have you  :)

Offline susan

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #578 on: May 03, 2013, 02:37:PM »
Hi lookout

I agree brilliant response from ngb to steve and shows he is a man of integrity with a first class legal brain.  I read steve's post for the first time today and to be honest with you I am in shock and speechless at its contents and he has really gone down in my estimation.  The opening "whoever you are" tells me steve does not follow the forum closely just wants to post his own views on his wonderful Julie and dreadful Jeremy.  Shame on him.

Offline killingeve

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #579 on: May 03, 2013, 02:38:PM »
Hello ngb  I think steve's post is both rude and insulting and he has shown himself in a very bad light on this forum.  He should be ashamed of himself.

Hi Susan

I've said before that at times I think Steve_uk's posts are so extreme that he has to be playing devil's advocate.  When I saw Steve_uk's post above I found it hilarious and I honestly thought he must be a friend of NGB's and it was all a wind-up  :)

Offline susan

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #580 on: May 03, 2013, 02:40:PM »
Hello N/N I second that as everyone on this forum has tremendous respect for ngb and we know him to be very honest and fair in his assessment of matters.

Offline lookout

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #581 on: May 03, 2013, 02:44:PM »
Hi Susan

I've said before that at times I think Steve_uk's posts are so extreme that he has to be playing devil's advocate.  When I saw Steve_uk's post above I found it hilarious and I honestly thought he must be a friend of NGB's and it was all a wind-up  :)


I've always been of the opinion that Steve is a " wind-up ",in his own right,that is,,just to keep the forum on its toes.

Offline ngb1066

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #582 on: May 03, 2013, 02:45:PM »

Ngb,,cannot that immunity ever be overturned ?

Only in exceptional circumstances and I cannot currently think of any such circumstances in this case.  Obviously if she confessed to having told a pack of lies she could be prosecuted for perjury and perverting the course of justice, but that is clearly unlikely to happen.  She might be prosecuted for perverting the course of justice in relation to the lies she told during the trial about her News of the World deal, but again I think that is unlikely to happen.

   
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 04:17:PM by ngb1066 »

Offline susan

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #583 on: May 03, 2013, 02:46:PM »
Hi N/N  wish I had looked at it like that I will read it again and fall off my chair laughing the audacity of the guy to speak in such tones.   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D especialy the bit "whoever you are" :'(

Caroline R

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Re: Statement of Ann Eaton 8th - 13th September 1985
« Reply #584 on: May 03, 2013, 02:47:PM »
Steve_UK - I am not sure what I have done to deserve such a damning condemnation not only of my analysis of the legal position but also of my integrity.  I have, in response to Bridget's original request, provided a thumbnail sketch of the relevant criminal law and applied that to Julie Mugford in the context of her own witness statements and evidence.  I am at a loss to understand why you should condemn me as dishonourable simply for expressing my honest opinion.  I appreciate that you feel very defensive towards Julie Mugford (whether because you are related to her or otherwise is I accept none of my business).  I am happy to enter into a debate about the legal implications of her actions, but using phrases such as "flights of fancy" and claiming that I "make a mockery" of my whole argument does not I suggest further debate on this.

I believe you are straining credulity in your attempts to whitewash Julie's conduct.  The following are examples:

i) You have put an innocent spin on the episode of the sleeping tablets, but according to her own account Julie knew what Jeremy wanted them for and permitted him to use them.

ii) By her own admission Julie was involved in a joint enterprise with Jeremy and Brett Collins to import the cannabis from Amsterdam, most of which was to be supplied to others by Julie directly as well as by Jeremy. This was of course following the murders at a time when Julie was perfectly happy to accompany Jeremy on an expensive jaunt, on her account with full knowledge that he had wiped out his family.  If she was telling the truth it is crystal clear that she had effectively condoned the murders and was looking forward to spending the rest of her life with the murderer.

iii) You claim an intimate knowledge of Julie's mental processes the day before the murders, during the night  and immediately following.  You even suggest that because she attended all girls' grammar school she was unable to understand the meaning of the words she claims were spoken by Jeremy.  Are you serious?

iv) I do not misrepresent the chronology.  I accept that Julie spoke to friends, including Liz Rimington, after splitting up with Jeremy, dropping increasingly powerful hints that Jeremy was responsible for the murders.  However, she did not approach the police.  Liz Rimington called the police suggesting that Julie had information.  Julie was then arrested and held in custody.  The way this was presented at trial, essentially that tormented by guilt she decided to come forward and tell the truth, was grossly misleading.  She also lied to the prosecution, and therefore misled the judge, the defence and the jury, about her arrangements with the News of the World.

v)  I do not accept that Julie's evidence was "not paramount".  I also doubt whether the case would have proceeded to trial without Julie's evidence, but even if it had done so I have little doubt that Jeremy would have been acquitted.

I have no problem with being robustly challenged on any arguments I present but I do feel both the tone and content of your post was unfortunate.

Fantastic post Neil - I think it speak volumes that even the most ardent guilty supporters can't bring themselves to defend the actions of Julie Mugford - never mind the limits that Steve_UK  has headed by attempting to discredit your own credentials in defence of the indefensible!!