Nevill Bamber's (alleged) call to the police?

[jon]

All this is giving me a headache!

You people are too clever for me, wish i was more intelligent hehehe!

Anyway for what its worth i dont believe for one minute their were two calls to the police!

Im sort of thinking that Bambers legal team are desperatly asking for any evidence they can and must be increasingly frustrated that all they are finding out is there is no proof he didnt do it.

I admire Mikes loyalty and maybe im cynical but i think we are being fed only the information that JB wants us to hear (not a dig at you Mike i just think you are possibly as in the dark as we are) i feel they are Cherry picking snippets of info that HINT at his innocence knowing that they have NOTHING concrete!

One things for sure if JB is ever released it will be on a technicality and not because hes been proved innocent because lets face it if that proof existed it would have come to light by now!

Do you think we could hear one single concrete piece of evidence which proves his guilt , as the last time i looked British law had to be proven beyond doubt . Not by a scorned girlfriend nor by relatives with a possible financial gain in mind , take JM and relatives out of the equation there wouldnt have been a murder trial .

Id like to see a single piece of evidence that hes innocent to be honest!

Nothing concrete either way has made my mind up and yes it should have been proven beyond a doubt that he was guilty, the system failed him but it still doesnt mean he didnt do it! just means his defence was crap and the police did a botched job (in my opinion)

Fair comment , but you being a lady you must be able to see the chances of any woman sleeping and holidaying with a man who has shot two innocent children dead very remote to say the least , to my mind it beggars belief .

Think it depend on the woman! if she was that heartless that she didnt tip off the police or family that she thought they were in danger knowing there were two kids in the house then she obvioulsy had no sense of whats right or wrong!

Look at these women that write to death row killers!! there are some nutjobs about! on the bamber is innocent facebook page (im not a member) there was a woman posting how she wanted him released as he was sexy!

Think JM is scum on either count, if JB did do it and she knew in advance she should have been charged as an accesory. If he didnt and she made the whole thing up then shes a liar and deserves to rot!

Incidentally how well did the Boutflours know her? seen some mention on here of things that Robert knew about her was there any sort of relationship there??

Not sure on the Boutflours but from what i have read they knew each other fairly well , JM was that cunning she went to a bank to clear up a bit of cheque fraud before the trial , so you could say she cleared up the fraud faster than she informed JB was a child killer , do you believe such a person should have been believed in a court ?

[joolz1975]

All this is giving me a headache!

You people are too clever for me, wish i was more intelligent hehehe!

Anyway for what its worth i dont believe for one minute their were two calls to the police!

Im sort of thinking that Bambers legal team are desperatly asking for any evidence they can and must be increasingly frustrated that all they are finding out is there is no proof he didnt do it.

I admire Mikes loyalty and maybe im cynical but i think we are being fed only the information that JB wants us to hear (not a dig at you Mike i just think you are possibly as in the dark as we are) i feel they are Cherry picking snippets of info that HINT at his innocence knowing that they have NOTHING concrete!

One things for sure if JB is ever released it will be on a technicality and not because hes been proved innocent because lets face it if that proof existed it would have come to light by now!

Do you think we could hear one single concrete piece of evidence which proves his guilt , as the last time i looked British law had to be proven beyond doubt . Not by a scorned girlfriend nor by relatives with a possible financial gain in mind , take JM and relatives out of the equation there wouldnt have been a murder trial .

Id like to see a single piece of evidence that hes innocent to be honest!

Nothing concrete either way has made my mind up and yes it should have been proven beyond a doubt that he was guilty, the system failed him but it still doesnt mean he didnt do it! just means his defence was crap and the police did a botched job (in my opinion)

Fair comment , but you being a lady you must be able to see the chances of any woman sleeping and holidaying with a man who has shot two innocent children dead very remote to say the least , to my mind it beggars belief .

Think it depend on the woman! if she was that heartless that she didnt tip off the police or family that she thought they were in danger knowing there were two kids in the house then she obvioulsy had no sense of whats right or wrong!

Look at these women that write to death row killers!! there are some nutjobs about! on the bamber is innocent facebook page (im not a member) there was a woman posting how she wanted him released as he was sexy!

Think JM is scum on either count, if JB did do it and she knew in advance she should have been charged as an accesory. If he didnt and she made the whole thing up then shes a liar and deserves to rot!

Incidentally how well did the Boutflours know her? seen some mention on here of things that Robert knew about her was there any sort of relationship there??

Not sure on the Boutflours but from what i have read they knew each other fairly well , JM was that cunning she went to a bank to clear up a bit of cheque fraud before the trial , so you could say she cleared up the fraud faster than she informed JB was a child killer , do you believe such a person should have been believed in a court ?

Erm no I think whatever way you look at it shes a disgrace!

I still cant bring myself to beleive that hes innocent though! ive said all along even if he didnt pull the trigger he knows more than hes letting on.

Im suspicious of the family also.

I dont know unless we get a deathbed confession i dont think this will ever get cleared up!

My worry more than that of a potentially innocent man been in prison  for something he didnt do is that a guilty man may end up been released on a technicality!

There is nothing out there to prove 100% that he didnt do it or he would have been out years ago but by the same token unless they get a confession out of him theres always the chance that hes inncocent

[John]

Where was Jeremy when Neville supposedly phoned him and the police?  I assume there is no corroboration for this?

[Newbury1]

Where was Jeremy when Neville supposedly phoned him and the police?  I assume there is no corroboration for this?

JB said he received the call from NB at Goldhanger (JB's Cottage). JB then called the police from Goldhanger.

There is no corroboration of this; however JB, whilst driving a car, was passed by a police car between Goldhanger and whf, as they were all making their way to whf.

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Where was Jeremy when Neville supposedly phoned him and the police?  I assume there is no corroboration for this?

Jeremy WAS at home at the time he (Jeremy) called the police. The number was traced to his home.
The call from Nevill to Jeremy (the established alibi) could not be verified by the authorities. Any call from Nevill to the police is merely speculative.

The general assumption (assuming JB's guilt) is that made the call from WHF to his own home, or left the phone off the hook to look like the call was made. Then rapidly got home to make a call to the police saying "my father's just called me"

The distance to home across fields is 1.7 miles, or 3.1 miles by road/track. It is alleged he used a bicycle to make the journey across fields, but zero proof of this exists (to my knowledge) and no tracks were every found.

IF he carried out the killings, he need to get home, make the call to the police, then get himself cleaned up in order to meet the police at WHF (which MIGHT account for him seeming to 'take his time' arriving).
That said, police witnessed him driving 'slowly' (about 29mph) - which could be argued as counter to the clean up theory, why didn't he rush, having lost time cleaning up? or, was it a cunning ruse to explain the slow arrival time?

When he made the call to the police, it was a gamble - the police COULD have said "okay Mr Bamber, there's a car close by, we'll come and pick you up and take you to WHF with us". Did he consider that scenario? was it so well planned? was it more spontaneous than we know? lots of questions.

I am sure he could run 1.7 miles in 15 minutes, but across fields in the dark might be tricky.

Nobody commented on anything unusual about his appearence when he met the police, other than to suggest he looked well dressed (which was later questioned and described as - trainers, jeans, shirt and two jumpers, so not exactly Saville Row!).

Considering come comments along the lines of "Nevill must have put up a hell of a fight in the kitchen" it seems both Jeremy AND Sheila showed little evidence of a fight, with Sheila looking the more likely than Jeremy.

 

[TheBrilliantMistake]

I believe JB's call to the police was proven to have originated at Goldhanger home and not contested in court.

It's certainly true he made the call! even if you contest the origin of it. But again, I'm certain I've seen it checked out and verified as coming from his number. (In fact, his number is logged on a call log report too)

[John]

Can I ask why these telephone calls were not all recorded as they should have been?

[jon]

Its simple EP produce the original log and audio tapes or common sense tells me , they have something to hide .

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Oh and of course, most people imagine a rather hurried affair of JB getting home soon after the murders and making the call to the police.

For all we know, he MAY have killed them by 12.30pm, taken his time to get home, cleaned up, lose evidence, compose himself and THEN call the police.

There was also some confusion about a call made to Julie Mugford - about the call being before or after the call to the police.
Before makes him look bad for calling her first (although genuine people DO odd things during stress)
After might go some way to explaining him taking his time to arrive at WHF?
A lot's been made of his slow driving to the farm, but I tend to speed in my car - but if I knew I was about to bump into the police, I might curb my speed to the legal limit.
All of that said, it seems to me to already have started to take on a serious nature by virtue of the police being involved and Jeremy having called them. Clearly serious enough for him to think the police were warranted (e.g. It's serious enough to call the police, but not serious to get their quickly?)

It could also be guessed at, that the call to police resulted in something like this:

JB - "Hello, JB of Goldhanger, I'm worried about my father having just received a call from him regarding some sort of argument with my sister and mention of her going crazy. They are at WHF and I'm worried about things because there are guns at the farm and the line was interrupted. It's not like my father to call unless it's serious, and my sister has serious mental health problems... I've very worried"

Police - "OK my Bamber, we'll send a car right over to the farm. Are you far away?"

JB - "No, I'm 10 mins away"

Police - "OK Mr Bamber, we should be there in 20 minutes or so, it would be helpful if you met us there. It might be wise to wait for us to arrive first."


Given this, Jeremy MIGHT have been trying to time his journey to arrive at the same time as the Police rather than show up at the house early.
It's be claimed he was simply nervous and unsure what was going on  (plausible)

[TheBrilliantMistake]

Can I ask why these telephone calls were not all recorded as they should have been?

It (JB's call to the police) was logged/recorded and made available and not refuted. There's nothing to verify on that score.
It's the call from Nevill to Jeremy that can't be verified by anybody (inc the Police). IF Nevill made that call, then Jeremy's story totally rings true (as the Judge said), but if that call never happened, then the only way Jeremy knew there was trouble at the farm was because he'd just been there - carrying out the murders.

The thing that gets to me is this:

If JB carried out the murders, and 'staged' the phone to look like a call had been made, then HOW did he KNOW the authorities couldn't prove no call was actually made?

If JB carried out the murders, and went as far as actually making a call to his own home, perhaps to be answered by an answering machine or something, then he got very unlucky that his efforts couldn't be proven (since had they been, he'd probably be free)

[Pete0001]

Its simple EP produce the original log and audio tapes or common sense tells me , they have something to hide .

But from their stand point they have nothing to prove. They will continue to repeat the line "he was found guilty in a court of law by a jury." After that their is nothing for them to prove unless an appeal court believes they (the police) have done something wrong/witheld something.

And even when an appeal court does demand every scrap of evidence to be handed over regardless of relevance, EP may hold their hands up and say "we were reluctant to get into this position due to the fact alot of the evidence has now been destroyed."... It's perfectly possible... what then, does that automatically make the conviction unsafe? Does that mean he's innocent or released on a technicality?

Just questions to ponder.

[robholt]

Regarding driving slowly, do we know if Police had blue lights on ? Irrespective of that fact, if I was on that country lane and could see a car in my rear mirror approaching quickly, I would slow down.

[jon]

Its simple EP produce the original log and audio tapes or common sense tells me , they have something to hide .

But from their stand point they have nothing to prove. They will continue to repeat the line "he was found guilty in a court of law by a jury." After that their is nothing for them to prove unless an appeal court believes they (the police) have done something wrong/witheld something.

And even when an appeal court does demand every scrap of evidence to be handed over regardless of relevance, EP may hold their hands up and say "we were reluctant to get into this position due to the fact alot of the evidence has now been destroyed."... It's perfectly possible... what then, does that automatically make the conviction unsafe? Does that mean he's innocent or released on a technicality?

Just questions to ponder.

So where do you draw the line ? Destroy DNA evidence , possibly destroying these logs , withholding over 200 photos were does it become an unsafe conviction , this is Britain remember , better to release a guilty man rather than convict an innocent man .

[joolz1975]

Its simple EP produce the original log and audio tapes or common sense tells me , they have something to hide .

But from their stand point they have nothing to prove. They will continue to repeat the line "he was found guilty in a court of law by a jury." After that their is nothing for them to prove unless an appeal court believes they (the police) have done something wrong/witheld something.

And even when an appeal court does demand every scrap of evidence to be handed over regardless of relevance, EP may hold their hands up and say "we were reluctant to get into this position due to the fact alot of the evidence has now been destroyed."... It's perfectly possible... what then, does that automatically make the conviction unsafe? Does that mean he's innocent or released on a technicality?

Just questions to ponder.

So where do you draw the line ? Destroy DNA evidence , possibly destroying these logs , withholding over 200 photos were does it become an unsafe conviction , this is Britain remember , better to release a guilty man rather than convict an innocent man .

Personnally id rather see a handful of innocent men behind bars for something they didnt do than see hundreds of guilty men walking the streets because the courts didnt manage to convict them.

Harsh but sometimes mistakes happen and the wrong decision is made but not often enough to change our law system.

If hes innocent i feel sorry for him i really do but obviously a jury thought otherwise!

[TheBrilliantMistake]

In my opinion, it would have been a LOT better for the police (at that time) if they COULD prove Jeremy was innocent.

Remember, they'd already started down the path of suicide.

IF, when it came to them changing direction, they could show Jeremy DID receive a call from Nevill, then that would have been great for them - proven right after all, even if their scene of crime behaviour was presumptuous.

By going down murder path (quite probably correctly) they had to accept and reveal that their suicide theory had cost them dearly.

The only sequence of events that would give rise to panic at the police (and a potential for any wrong doing) would be:

1) Police assume suicide
2) Police change mind in light of new evidence from Mugford and Family
3) Police gather compelling evidence against JB (and possibly get as far down the line as conviction)
4) Police discover a call WAS made from Nevill to Jeremy after all  <----- PANIC POINT (already given hard time for the mess of the first assumption, this would be the point where someone could theoretically say "uh oh, might be easier to just carry on and say nothing")

So all in all, I think proof of a call from Nevill to Jeremy would have been mana from heaven to the police (at first), proof of it later might have been less well received.

Incidentally, I do not believe proof existed, and therefore wasn't covered up.
I just think it's a shame BT couldn't prove or disprove the existence of the call, and settle the entire case once and for all.

p,s,
I wonder if JB switched to Virgin Media after his poor service from BT? ;-)