Author Topic: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...  (Read 16255 times)

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Offline Nickos

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #225 on: February 18, 2013, 12:34:PM »
A bullet in the twins room was also not recovered.

Was any explanation ever offered as to where these (2) bullets might have gone?
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #226 on: February 18, 2013, 12:59:PM »
Essex police have gone on record as saying that as many as 27 shots were fired during the incident, that is two more bullets than they officially recovered, and two more bullet cases than they officially recovered...
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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #227 on: February 18, 2013, 01:00:PM »
Was any explanation ever offered as to where these (2) bullets might have gone?

The one to Ralph was suggested to have fragmented into unrecoverable pieces. I haven't seen any reason suggested for the bullet in the twins room, just that it was not recovered.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #228 on: February 18, 2013, 01:30:PM »
Irrespective of whether or not, one of the bullets fired at Ralph fragmented,  a bullet case was / is missing or unaccounted for...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 01:54:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #229 on: February 18, 2013, 02:20:PM »
Irrespective of whether or not, one of the bullets fired at Ralph fragmented,  a bullet case was / is missing or unaccounted for...

In fact, at least two, possibly as many as three bullet cases are missing (if you include the original bullet case belonging to the substituted PV//20 which somehow became transformed from being badly fragmented on one day, to becoming transformed into a whole bullet by the next...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 02:57:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #230 on: February 18, 2013, 03:21:PM »
A starting point for debate, would be that there should have been 27 bullet cases, and 25 bullets...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 03:24:PM by mike tesko »
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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #231 on: February 18, 2013, 07:44:PM »
Apparently not.  :-\

Offline mike tesko

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #232 on: February 18, 2013, 08:39:PM »
Another possibility, is that there was only 26 shots, which should have produced 26 bullet cases, which if added to the round used in the substitution of the original PV20 bullet, made up 27 bullet cases...
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #233 on: February 18, 2013, 09:03:PM »
Despite Essex police knowing up to 27 rounds had been fired during this incident, which should have produce 27 bullet cases and only 25 bullets, or part bullets were fired, they settled for the jury being told a blatent lie about how many shots had actually been fired. For some reason police did not want the jury to know about these two additional rounds which someone fired at one of the victims...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 09:04:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #234 on: February 18, 2013, 09:10:PM »
Despite Essex police knowing up to 27 rounds had been fired during this incident, which should have produce 27 bullet cases and only 25 bullets, or part bullets were fired, they settled for the jury being told a blatent lie about how many shots had actually been fired. For some reason police did not want the jury to know about these two additional rounds which someone fired at one of the victims...

Withholding evidence from the court which tried these matters, both at the inquest, and the trial by jury, almost certainly changed the outcome of the verdict, since, if Sheila killed the others and then herself, police would have found 27 bullet cases at the scene. Well, since two bullet cases are missing from the scene, it proves that somrone else killed Sheila...
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #235 on: February 18, 2013, 09:23:PM »
Now...

Before anyone jumps to the wrong conclusion, citing Jeremy as the killer, hold your horses a minute...

Why would a killer who fired 27 shots remove two of the 27 bullet cases from the scene during the stage managing stage of the crime? If somebody had done that, it would only serve to highlight that Sheila had been killed by another...

Not so, if you were the police, and not only did you remove two of the bullet cases and hide then away, it then allowed them to suggest that only 25 rounds had been fired...

« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 06:02:AM by mike tesko »
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Offline lookout

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #236 on: February 18, 2013, 09:29:PM »
Yes,Mike,,,I see what you're getting at. Cunning,eh.?

Offline Patti

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #237 on: February 18, 2013, 09:30:PM »
Hi Mike :)

When I add all the cases up it comes to 25 which matches the shots on the victims.  However, there does appear to be a couple of bullets missing....One of them can be accounted for.  The one I can't find is the exit bullet to Nevill's left arm....It has been said that this fragmented into the chest cavity....Impossible in my opinion, for there would have been another entry wound.  Not all the PV's match up either...nor do the weights...and you are right there are two entry wounds that are larger than the others.....but are not contact shots.....Once I counted 26, but soon realised, that I had counted the one in the tray on the sink side..... :) :) :) :) :)

Offline packagebuilder

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #238 on: February 18, 2013, 10:59:PM »
Now...

Before anyone jumps to the wrong conclusion, citing Jeremy as the killer, hold your horses a minute...

Why would a killer who fired 27 shots remove two of the 27 bullet cases from the scene during the stage managing stage of the crime? If somebody had done that, it would only serve to highlight that Sheila had been killed by another...

Not so, if you were the police, and not only did you remove two of the bullet cases and hide then away, it then allow them to suggest that only 25 rounds had been fired...

Correct!! It defects logic of removing two cases unless the police are trying to hide something... plus with the bodies gone and buried with some bullets left in them, then police statement stands and can be falsed as no prove of bullets because they went with the bodies!

Bullets found fragments then transformed into a whole one give it away.
 
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...
« Reply #239 on: February 19, 2013, 06:32:AM »
Hi Mike :)

When I add all the cases up it comes to 25 which matches the shots on the victims.  However, there does appear to be a couple of bullets missing....One of them can be accounted for.  The one I can't find is the exit bullet to Nevill's left arm....It has been said that this fragmented into the chest cavity....Impossible in my opinion, for there would have been another entry wound.  Not all the PV's match up either...nor do the weights...and you are right there are two entry wounds that are larger than the others.....but are not contact shots.....Once I counted 26, but soon realised, that I had counted the one in the tray on the sink side..... :) :) :) :) :)

Yes, it is very confusing, and needs an indepth study to get to the truth, but official documents do exist where the number of shots fired during the incident appear to be contradictive, in some 27 shots had been fired, in others 26 shots had been fired, and in the end they settled for 25 shots being fired. To get around this they suggest that one or more bullets fragmented and ended up in different parts of the body, but when you adopt that approach and because it then allows the police case to suggest there was only 25 shots fired, you are then faced with bullets not recovered from the bodies of the victims, If you add these to the configuration of 25 bullets arrived at in the police case that was brought against Jeremy Bamber, it increases the tally of bullets fired into the victims from 25 to 26, or 27, so with this in mind, the estimate they officially come up with that 25 shots had been fired has to be wrong and very misleading. For this reason, and all things being equal, there must have been 27 shots fired in total, and 27 corresponding bullet cases available for collection at the scene by the police, but we only have 25. Even if I am wrong about there should be 27 bullet cases, at worst there has to have been 26, and so at least one bullet case is missing from the scene. Now if Sheila killed the others and herself then that bullet case could not possibly have gone missing from the scene at all - impossible...

This brings me back to the subject of who killed Sheila, I know there are many who think that if Sheila did not kill herself then it must have been Jeremy, but I think that approach is fundamentally wrong, since if there was / is one or two bullet cases missing from the scene, it means that he took them or that with him, but why would he have done that? Not only that, but the prosecution would have seized upon the fact that there were missing bullet cases which could have only been taken from the scene after Sheila had been killed and her body stage managed (Sheila could not have got rid of these / those two missing bullet cases, after she was already dead). Rather than enlarge upon the missing two bullet cases (or as the case may be, one bullet case) the police sought to conceal for the fact that they existed at all, by claiming only 25 shots had been fired, and that 25 bullets or part bullets had been recovered, along with the corresponding 25 bullet cases - it is the police who are guilty of covering up for the fact that there had been, and was more than 25 shots fired, and that for me is very telling...

You do not hide facts like these from the courts that deal with deaths (Coroners court) or any criminal investigation or prosecution, or trial), you do not try to hide these facts from a jury unless you know that to declare them during a trial, is likely to lead to the collapse of the case in question, proceeding any further...

Essex police / Special Branch, hid facts about additional shots being fired during the incident, and they would only have done that if it involved one or more of the victims having been shot by the police. It must follow that if this was / is true, then any shooting of any of the victims could only have occurred after the raid team went into the premises after 7:30am, not beforehand...

Now...

We know the police or somebody connected with thier investigation, have substituted one of the bullets (PV/20) retrieved from Sheila's neck by the pathologist, Peter Venezis, at autopsy on 7th August 1985. We know that before Venezis removed that bullet that an Xray had been taken of the same bullet in a badly fragmented condition insitu, inside her neck, but by the time the police were building a case to prosecute Jeremy Bamber (20th September 1985) that that badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) had become transformed into a whole bullet, to enable the prosecutions ballistic expert to confirm that the new whole bullet (PV/20) had been loaded into the magazine of the gun, and fired from it - now how can a badly fragmented bullet, as of 7th August 1985, grow into a whole bullet, by 20th September 1985?

Police substituted the original badly fragmented bullet, for a whole one, so that it could be said that it had been fired through the anshulz rifle, when it might not have been, was not...

If the original badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) was fired through a different gun, this would explain why there is an imbalance, between the number of shots which were actually fired, and the number of spent cartridge cases, the police are saying were recovered from the scene, there is this difference, because the bullet case in question (the one linked to the original badly fragmented PV/20 bullet) had to be taken out of the equation, otherwise its presence amongst the batch of crime scene ammunition, would provide confirmation, that police had opened fired upon entering the premises...

Allow me to mention, that once the handling of Jeremy's case changed hands from Ewen Smith to GDS, I once raised the question about the possibility that the bodies of the two child victims should be resumed, so that at least two bullets which were not recovered during autopsy by Venezis, on 8th August 1985, could be retrieved, examined and identified, but GDS said he would not take that course of action, and not allow anybody to disturb the last resting places of the child victims (or words to that effect). Well, what I am saying is that if there were 25 shots fired, and police have 25 bullets or part bullets, and 25 bullet cases, if you add these two bullets not recovered from the child victims, to that total, it produces 27 shots fired altogether, and establishes that there are two bullet cases missing, or unaccounted for? There is nothning complicated about any of this, you can work it out by using simple mathematics - 25 + 2 = 27...

Perhaps this sheds some light on why two control rounds went missing or are unacccounted for, from the batch of control ammunition (DRH/42) once it arrived into the possesssion of the ballistic expert. Malcom Fletcher, on 20th September 1985, which the COLP investigation (1991 /92) looked into, but failed to resolve...

I wonder what happened to those two missing bullets, and two spent cartridge cases (from DRH/42)?

« Last Edit: February 19, 2013, 06:50:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...