If Sheila Did It

[mb1]

However, it is a double standard to infer that JB would not have killed his immediate family for financial gain, yet his extended family would automatically conspire/collude with murder to achieve the same.

As far I am concerned you can ascribe the money motive to every relative in this saga - except for the 5 dead people.

But only one person claimed the gun was in Sheila's hands.
I do not agree that the gun was in Sheila's hands.
To change my mind you have to supply evidence that the gun was in her hands.

I believe it is unsound to convict a deceased person - which is the suggestion - on the basis that they suffered from schizophrenia.
Just as I believe it was wrong to convict Barry George (despite previous convictions for assault on women) on the basis that he had a low I.Q. and suffered from an attention seeking personality disorder.

[jon]

From the TFG description of entry, it appears they were employing a clear/secure.forward tactic. They opened windows to create exits for officers should they need to retreat.

If SC was alive in the kitchen her only opportunity to move unseen would have been when the TFG began moving upstairs. If she used the kitchen stairs, they would have seen her on the landing. Put frankly, they would have shot her and it wouldn't have been an uppercut to the chin.
Why would they lie if this occurred?
TFUs/TFGs kill people waving chair legs and toy guns without feeling the need to lie.
Why hide the fact that they had shot a woman who had just slaughtered her children and parents?

If Sheila managed to evade them and get to the bedroom, the TFG would have returned to siege mode whether or not they heard a shot. Once again, WHF would have been a no-go area for some considerable time.
Again, why would they lie if this occurred?

Simply cannot see any strand of logic in this line of reasoning.

The problem Bamber has now....  he has come up with that many different stories to say what happened with every little new evidence, he has now lost any little credibility he had.
He has attacked everybody saying they are lying from the farm hands, police and prosecution etc that I'm sure that nothing new released would ever change matters for him now, as why would they if it was only going to drop them in it.
He's tried to dig himself out of a massive hole since day one with his arrogance and all the legal experts who matter in this case can see it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-officers-charged-over-cardiff-three-miscarriage-of-justice-1636833.html Sometimes it takes a long time !!

That terrible case involves bully-boy police officers and supposedly 'bullied' witnesses - helped by the fact that the force later convicted the correct killer, allowing these appellants to be freed and this case to begin.

However, truly bad as it was, it didn't involve collusion of the forensics labs, ballistics experts, relatives, will executor, BT, uncle Tom Cobley and all...

I go back to my original question - if the TFU make a hash of the entry to WHF and allow Sheila to shoot herself, why lie? She had just slaughtered (allegedly) her children and parents. Who would have cared what happened to her?


   

Relatives , i take it you didnt believe Sion Jenkins wife or his children when they said he was violent ? So do relatives lie ? Forensics , have gone wrong  many times Frank Skuse , Michael Heath  to name but two , BT if they hid nothing get EP to release the bill of the relevant month , Tom Cobley i will hold my hand up and say he never colluded  , you being a legal liberian i am sure you dont need me to remind you that there have been worse miscarriages of justice than this !!

Worse in which way?
Scale of collusion?
Time incarcerated?
Nature of crime/s alleged?

Scale of collusion?
Time spent in incarceration?
Nature of the crimes of which they were accused?

You are asking us to believe that every body - personal, governmental, professional - entered into a deliberate conspiracy, uniting varied motives to achieve a common ill, that of framing and convicting an innocent man. It follows that those succeeding these positions over the last 25 years also stand accused, compromising their roles, personal integrity and - if discovered - their careers and possible freedom.
Not a single whistleblower?   

As for the SJ case - by the time of the Appeals the children A +C had reached an age when the court accepted they understood the concept of 'truth and lie' and LJ had had time to evaluate the case. The children travelled half-way across the world to give evidence on SJ's behalf. Hopefully, it gave the girls some sense of closure. It was certainly emotional and compelling, quite a new 'legal' experience for me.

As you are keen to personalise issues let me explain: my professional concern is the precedence of relevant legal argument. The bulk of my work is commissioned by chambers/counsels specialising in defence.
It is not my job, nor that of solicitors, counsel or judges, to decide guilt or innocence. That rests with juries.
I simply say that legal argument can be inferred from previous cases, but there is no automatic transference of conclusions. Steve Wright is not innocent just because Barry George was. But if you prefer to picture me as a rabid hang-em-all facist, that's fine. I'll sleep. But I will give you a case worth viewing - Gary Critchley... 
 

I dont think of you as a hang - em -all facist at all , but i think you show some sign's of double standards , LJ said SJ was violent , one of his children told Trevor Mcdonald he hit them with some object think it was a belt but i am not sure , now you fought for his release , now can you answer my question was he violent ? In your opinion ?

I have said Sheila threw things and struck Colin while their relationship was breaking up.
I have said JB twisted JM's arm behind her back during an argument.
As I argued, neither of these demonstrate any prior history of 'violence' in my opinion. They were aggressive, emotional acts but I do not conclude that they actively enjoyed hurting others.

My Mother once slapped me around the face. Not a violent person at all.

Is a man who routinely beats his wife guilty of domestic violence? YMorally, yes. Legally - only if convicted.
Is the teacher who never canes a child a better teacher than the one who does? I have no idea, as we are evaluating their ability to teach, not beat.

If one of the Guildford 4 liked a Saturday night fight did that make them a bomber? No.

Are you suggesting I have to accept every criminal conviction is a potential conspiracy, otherwise I cannot accept any individual miscarriage of justice?
Would it not be equally sound to regard criminal convictions as safe unless there is compelling evidence to the contrary?

I cannot see where I am applying a double standard.





 

Gary Critchley very sad case , Kevin Lane is one that may also interest you. Can you answer my question was SJ violent in your opinion ? I appreciate if you dont want to answer but can you just say if that is the case ?

[Hartley]

Can you answer my question was SJ violent in your opinion ? I appreciate if you dont want to answer but can you just say if that is the case ?

Just out of interest, why do you want to know so badly?

[mb1]

From the TFG description of entry, it appears they were employing a clear/secure.forward tactic. They opened windows to create exits for officers should they need to retreat.

If SC was alive in the kitchen her only opportunity to move unseen would have been when the TFG began moving upstairs. If she used the kitchen stairs, they would have seen her on the landing. Put frankly, they would have shot her and it wouldn't have been an uppercut to the chin.
Why would they lie if this occurred?
TFUs/TFGs kill people waving chair legs and toy guns without feeling the need to lie.
Why hide the fact that they had shot a woman who had just slaughtered her children and parents?

If Sheila managed to evade them and get to the bedroom, the TFG would have returned to siege mode whether or not they heard a shot. Once again, WHF would have been a no-go area for some considerable time.
Again, why would they lie if this occurred?

Simply cannot see any strand of logic in this line of reasoning.

The problem Bamber has now....  he has come up with that many different stories to say what happened with every little new evidence, he has now lost any little credibility he had.
He has attacked everybody saying they are lying from the farm hands, police and prosecution etc that I'm sure that nothing new released would ever change matters for him now, as why would they if it was only going to drop them in it.
He's tried to dig himself out of a massive hole since day one with his arrogance and all the legal experts who matter in this case can see it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-officers-charged-over-cardiff-three-miscarriage-of-justice-1636833.html Sometimes it takes a long time !!

That terrible case involves bully-boy police officers and supposedly 'bullied' witnesses - helped by the fact that the force later convicted the correct killer, allowing these appellants to be freed and this case to begin.

However, truly bad as it was, it didn't involve collusion of the forensics labs, ballistics experts, relatives, will executor, BT, uncle Tom Cobley and all...

I go back to my original question - if the TFU make a hash of the entry to WHF and allow Sheila to shoot herself, why lie? She had just slaughtered (allegedly) her children and parents. Who would have cared what happened to her?


   

Relatives , i take it you didnt believe Sion Jenkins wife or his children when they said he was violent ? So do relatives lie ? Forensics , have gone wrong  many times Frank Skuse , Michael Heath  to name but two , BT if they hid nothing get EP to release the bill of the relevant month , Tom Cobley i will hold my hand up and say he never colluded  , you being a legal liberian i am sure you dont need me to remind you that there have been worse miscarriages of justice than this !!

Worse in which way?
Scale of collusion?
Time incarcerated?
Nature of crime/s alleged?

Scale of collusion?
Time spent in incarceration?
Nature of the crimes of which they were accused?

You are asking us to believe that every body - personal, governmental, professional - entered into a deliberate conspiracy, uniting varied motives to achieve a common ill, that of framing and convicting an innocent man. It follows that those succeeding these positions over the last 25 years also stand accused, compromising their roles, personal integrity and - if discovered - their careers and possible freedom.
Not a single whistleblower?   

As for the SJ case - by the time of the Appeals the children A +C had reached an age when the court accepted they understood the concept of 'truth and lie' and LJ had had time to evaluate the case. The children travelled half-way across the world to give evidence on SJ's behalf. Hopefully, it gave the girls some sense of closure. It was certainly emotional and compelling, quite a new 'legal' experience for me.

As you are keen to personalise issues let me explain: my professional concern is the precedence of relevant legal argument. The bulk of my work is commissioned by chambers/counsels specialising in defence.
It is not my job, nor that of solicitors, counsel or judges, to decide guilt or innocence. That rests with juries.
I simply say that legal argument can be inferred from previous cases, but there is no automatic transference of conclusions. Steve Wright is not innocent just because Barry George was. But if you prefer to picture me as a rabid hang-em-all facist, that's fine. I'll sleep. But I will give you a case worth viewing - Gary Critchley... 
 

I dont think of you as a hang - em -all facist at all , but i think you show some sign's of double standards , LJ said SJ was violent , one of his children told Trevor Mcdonald he hit them with some object think it was a belt but i am not sure , now you fought for his release , now can you answer my question was he violent ? In your opinion ?

I have said Sheila threw things and struck Colin while their relationship was breaking up.
I have said JB twisted JM's arm behind her back during an argument.
As I argued, neither of these demonstrate any prior history of 'violence' in my opinion. They were aggressive, emotional acts but I do not conclude that they actively enjoyed hurting others.

My Mother once slapped me around the face. Not a violent person at all.

Is a man who routinely beats his wife guilty of domestic violence? YMorally, yes. Legally - only if convicted.
Is the teacher who never canes a child a better teacher than the one who does? I have no idea, as we are evaluating their ability to teach, not beat.

If one of the Guildford 4 liked a Saturday night fight did that make them a bomber? No.

Are you suggesting I have to accept every criminal conviction is a potential conspiracy, otherwise I cannot accept any individual miscarriage of justice?
Would it not be equally sound to regard criminal convictions as safe unless there is compelling evidence to the contrary?

I cannot see where I am applying a double standard.





 

Gary Critchley very sad case , Kevin Lane is one that may also interest you. Can you answer my question was SJ violent in your opinion ? I appreciate if you dont want to answer but can you just say if that is the case ?

Jon, I lived in my home nearby. I did not live in anyone else's household.
Are you asking if I believed LJ at that time? Yes.
Are you asking if I still believe LJ's statement from that time? Yes.
 
I do not reason that is incompatible with anything else I believe to have been proved.

1 + 0 = 1

Does that answer your question?
 

[jon]

From the TFG description of entry, it appears they were employing a clear/secure.forward tactic. They opened windows to create exits for officers should they need to retreat.

If SC was alive in the kitchen her only opportunity to move unseen would have been when the TFG began moving upstairs. If she used the kitchen stairs, they would have seen her on the landing. Put frankly, they would have shot her and it wouldn't have been an uppercut to the chin.
Why would they lie if this occurred?
TFUs/TFGs kill people waving chair legs and toy guns without feeling the need to lie.
Why hide the fact that they had shot a woman who had just slaughtered her children and parents?

If Sheila managed to evade them and get to the bedroom, the TFG would have returned to siege mode whether or not they heard a shot. Once again, WHF would have been a no-go area for some considerable time.
Again, why would they lie if this occurred?

Simply cannot see any strand of logic in this line of reasoning.

The problem Bamber has now....  he has come up with that many different stories to say what happened with every little new evidence, he has now lost any little credibility he had.
He has attacked everybody saying they are lying from the farm hands, police and prosecution etc that I'm sure that nothing new released would ever change matters for him now, as why would they if it was only going to drop them in it.
He's tried to dig himself out of a massive hole since day one with his arrogance and all the legal experts who matter in this case can see it.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-officers-charged-over-cardiff-three-miscarriage-of-justice-1636833.html Sometimes it takes a long time !!

That terrible case involves bully-boy police officers and supposedly 'bullied' witnesses - helped by the fact that the force later convicted the correct killer, allowing these appellants to be freed and this case to begin.

However, truly bad as it was, it didn't involve collusion of the forensics labs, ballistics experts, relatives, will executor, BT, uncle Tom Cobley and all...

I go back to my original question - if the TFU make a hash of the entry to WHF and allow Sheila to shoot herself, why lie? She had just slaughtered (allegedly) her children and parents. Who would have cared what happened to her?


   

Relatives , i take it you didnt believe Sion Jenkins wife or his children when they said he was violent ? So do relatives lie ? Forensics , have gone wrong  many times Frank Skuse , Michael Heath  to name but two , BT if they hid nothing get EP to release the bill of the relevant month , Tom Cobley i will hold my hand up and say he never colluded  , you being a legal liberian i am sure you dont need me to remind you that there have been worse miscarriages of justice than this !!

Worse in which way?
Scale of collusion?
Time incarcerated?
Nature of crime/s alleged?

Scale of collusion?
Time spent in incarceration?
Nature of the crimes of which they were accused?

You are asking us to believe that every body - personal, governmental, professional - entered into a deliberate conspiracy, uniting varied motives to achieve a common ill, that of framing and convicting an innocent man. It follows that those succeeding these positions over the last 25 years also stand accused, compromising their roles, personal integrity and - if discovered - their careers and possible freedom.
Not a single whistleblower?   

As for the SJ case - by the time of the Appeals the children A +C had reached an age when the court accepted they understood the concept of 'truth and lie' and LJ had had time to evaluate the case. The children travelled half-way across the world to give evidence on SJ's behalf. Hopefully, it gave the girls some sense of closure. It was certainly emotional and compelling, quite a new 'legal' experience for me.

As you are keen to personalise issues let me explain: my professional concern is the precedence of relevant legal argument. The bulk of my work is commissioned by chambers/counsels specialising in defence.
It is not my job, nor that of solicitors, counsel or judges, to decide guilt or innocence. That rests with juries.
I simply say that legal argument can be inferred from previous cases, but there is no automatic transference of conclusions. Steve Wright is not innocent just because Barry George was. But if you prefer to picture me as a rabid hang-em-all facist, that's fine. I'll sleep. But I will give you a case worth viewing - Gary Critchley... 
 

I dont think of you as a hang - em -all facist at all , but i think you show some sign's of double standards , LJ said SJ was violent , one of his children told Trevor Mcdonald he hit them with some object think it was a belt but i am not sure , now you fought for his release , now can you answer my question was he violent ? In your opinion ?

I have said Sheila threw things and struck Colin while their relationship was breaking up.
I have said JB twisted JM's arm behind her back during an argument.
As I argued, neither of these demonstrate any prior history of 'violence' in my opinion. They were aggressive, emotional acts but I do not conclude that they actively enjoyed hurting others.

My Mother once slapped me around the face. Not a violent person at all.

Is a man who routinely beats his wife guilty of domestic violence? YMorally, yes. Legally - only if convicted.
Is the teacher who never canes a child a better teacher than the one who does? I have no idea, as we are evaluating their ability to teach, not beat.

If one of the Guildford 4 liked a Saturday night fight did that make them a bomber? No.

Are you suggesting I have to accept every criminal conviction is a potential conspiracy, otherwise I cannot accept any individual miscarriage of justice?
Would it not be equally sound to regard criminal convictions as safe unless there is compelling evidence to the contrary?

I cannot see where I am applying a double standard.





 

Gary Critchley very sad case , Kevin Lane is one that may also interest you. Can you answer my question was SJ violent in your opinion ? I appreciate if you dont want to answer but can you just say if that is the case ?

Jon, I lived in my home nearby. I did not live in anyone else's household.
Are you asking if I believed LJ at that time? Yes.
Are you asking if I still believe LJ's statement from that time? Yes.
 
I do not reason that is incompatible with anything else I believe to have been proved.

1 + 0 = 1

Does that answer your question?

Thanks , very interesting , from that i take it you truly believed in his innocence , not that you just tried to help or work on his behalf , do you put any significance on JB passing a lie detector ?

[Hartley]

Thanks , very interesting , from that i take it you truly believed in his innocence , not that you just tried to help or work on his behalf , do you put any significance on JB passing a lie detector ?

Not sure you can take that. You've obviously read Mb1's posts in the other case topics such as:

As someone who (some 2 years after conviction) supported Sion, yet works within the legal profession, I have to be honest and admit that I cannot categorically state his innocence or guilt. However, given the forensic arguments - and, for me, the carrier bag - I believe justice has been served in Sion's case. 

Whether justice has been served for Billie-Jo is a different issue.

So what are you getting at?

[Hartley]

Anyway, moving on ..........

It's been stated by a ballistics expert that the first shot to Sheila was at a distance of up to three inches away and the second (fatal) shot was a contact shot.

I was wondering whether that first shot would be consistent with somebody shooting themselves, I would have expected both shots to be contact shots.

[jon]

Thanks , very interesting , from that i take it you truly believed in his innocence , not that you just tried to help or work on his behalf , do you put any significance on JB passing a lie detector ?

Not sure you can take that. You've obviously read Mb1's posts in the other case topics such as:

As someone who (some 2 years after conviction) supported Sion, yet works within the legal profession, I have to be honest and admit that I cannot categorically state his innocence or guilt. However, given the forensic arguments - and, for me, the carrier bag - I believe justice has been served in Sion's case. 

Whether justice has been served for Billie-Jo is a different issue.

So what are you getting at?

I would just like to know of someone in the legal profession , what they thought of JB passing a lie detector test , do they place any weight in this at all , SJ refused a lie detector test after he was cleared , do you MB believe he was right to do so if he had nothing to hide ?

[mb1]

Thanks , very interesting , from that i take it you truly believed in his innocence , not that you just tried to help or work on his behalf , do you put any significance on JB passing a lie detector ?

Not sure you can take that. You've obviously read Mb1's posts in the other case topics such as:

As someone who (some 2 years after conviction) supported Sion, yet works within the legal profession, I have to be honest and admit that I cannot categorically state his innocence or guilt. However, given the forensic arguments - and, for me, the carrier bag - I believe justice has been served in Sion's case. 

Whether justice has been served for Billie-Jo is a different issue.

So what are you getting at?

I would just like to know of someone in the legal profession , what they thought of JB passing a lie detector test , do they place any weight in this at all , SJ refused a lie detector test after he was cleared , do you MB believe he was right to do so if he had nothing to hide ?

Based solely on what I've read, lie detectors are scientifically worthless. Catchy headlines though!

[Roch]

Thanks , very interesting , from that i take it you truly believed in his innocence , not that you just tried to help or work on his behalf , do you put any significance on JB passing a lie detector ?

Not sure you can take that. You've obviously read Mb1's posts in the other case topics such as:

As someone who (some 2 years after conviction) supported Sion, yet works within the legal profession, I have to be honest and admit that I cannot categorically state his innocence or guilt. However, given the forensic arguments - and, for me, the carrier bag - I believe justice has been served in Sion's case. 

Whether justice has been served for Billie-Jo is a different issue.

So what are you getting at?

I would just like to know of someone in the legal profession , what they thought of JB passing a lie detector test , do they place any weight in this at all , SJ refused a lie detector test after he was cleared , do you MB believe he was right to do so if he had nothing to hide ?

Based solely on what I've read, lie detectors are scientifically worthless. Catchy headlines though!

mb1, can you put any meat on the bones so to speak, about what you have read that has helped you form the opinion re polygraph tests being worthless?  I havent read a great deal about them my self.  Was planning to do so but keep getting tied up in reading threads on here instead!

[jon]

Thanks , very interesting , from that i take it you truly believed in his innocence , not that you just tried to help or work on his behalf , do you put any significance on JB passing a lie detector ?

Not sure you can take that. You've obviously read Mb1's posts in the other case topics such as:

As someone who (some 2 years after conviction) supported Sion, yet works within the legal profession, I have to be honest and admit that I cannot categorically state his innocence or guilt. However, given the forensic arguments - and, for me, the carrier bag - I believe justice has been served in Sion's case. 

Whether justice has been served for Billie-Jo is a different issue.

So what are you getting at?

I would just like to know of someone in the legal profession , what they thought of JB passing a lie detector test , do they place any weight in this at all , SJ refused a lie detector test after he was cleared , do you MB believe he was right to do so if he had nothing to hide ?

Based solely on what I've read, lie detectors are scientifically worthless. Catchy headlines though!

Accepted in many US States , if both sides agree to do one

[Jackiepreece]

Even after all the arguments that everyone has put forward on this thread everyone seems to believe that it was not impossible for Sheila to carry out the murders.

The ccrc are continuing to look at evidence and more evidencehas come to light over the years that was previously and although I have no legal knowledge to draw from as I have said before I have experience of being a jury member in a murder trial so I look at a lot of reasoning with that in mind.  I have personal experience of other people sitting on a jury when they have been forced to do so.
On the subject of violence you are saying that violence probably carries on after maybe the first 'episode' well I really can't see much said about JB in prison and being violent apart from one episode I read about.  In fact he was downgraded from an a to a b after 4 years is this normal for someone that has murdered 5 people.
I believe a number of prisons have helped him in the past and I wonder why maybe they can judge someone better than most.  I still think there are things hidden in this case and I would hope that everything could be disclosed to satisfy JB s defense

[mb1]

Thanks , very interesting , from that i take it you truly believed in his innocence , not that you just tried to help or work on his behalf , do you put any significance on JB passing a lie detector ?

Not sure you can take that. You've obviously read Mb1's posts in the other case topics such as:

As someone who (some 2 years after conviction) supported Sion, yet works within the legal profession, I have to be honest and admit that I cannot categorically state his innocence or guilt. However, given the forensic arguments - and, for me, the carrier bag - I believe justice has been served in Sion's case. 

Whether justice has been served for Billie-Jo is a different issue.

So what are you getting at?

I would just like to know of someone in the legal profession , what they thought of JB passing a lie detector test , do they place any weight in this at all , SJ refused a lie detector test after he was cleared , do you MB believe he was right to do so if he had nothing to hide ?

Based solely on what I've read, lie detectors are scientifically worthless. Catchy headlines though!

mb1, can you put any meat on the bones so to speak, about what you have read that has helped you form the opinion re polygraph tests being worthless?  I havent read a great deal about them my self.  Was planning to do so but keep getting tied up in reading threads on here instead!

My personal reticence is 'money' - he who pays the piper calls the tune - although I do accept that this could apply to any 'expert for hire' scenario.

Different machines/methods - standards?
Influence of tester
Bias in questions - different words/syntax = different loading
Disposition/mental state of subject - nervous subjects can fail when telling the truth; some personality
      disorders can result in passes despite lying
Time frames - the subject's short term/long term memory strengths/weaknesses
Medical conditions - depending on method used.
Accuracy - someone (believe TBM) posted statistics demonstrating lower rates than those claimed on
      daytime TV

Oh, and OJ "If I Did It" Simpson passed a polygraph test...

 

[jon]

Thanks , very interesting , from that i take it you truly believed in his innocence , not that you just tried to help or work on his behalf , do you put any significance on JB passing a lie detector ?

Not sure you can take that. You've obviously read Mb1's posts in the other case topics such as:

As someone who (some 2 years after conviction) supported Sion, yet works within the legal profession, I have to be honest and admit that I cannot categorically state his innocence or guilt. However, given the forensic arguments - and, for me, the carrier bag - I believe justice has been served in Sion's case. 

Whether justice has been served for Billie-Jo is a different issue.

So what are you getting at?

I would just like to know of someone in the legal profession , what they thought of JB passing a lie detector test , do they place any weight in this at all , SJ refused a lie detector test after he was cleared , do you MB believe he was right to do so if he had nothing to hide ?

Based solely on what I've read, lie detectors are scientifically worthless. Catchy headlines though!

mb1, can you put any meat on the bones so to speak, about what you have read that has helped you form the opinion re polygraph tests being worthless?  I havent read a great deal about them my self.  Was planning to do so but keep getting tied up in reading threads on here instead!

My personal reticence is 'money' - he who pays the piper calls the tune - although I do accept that this could apply to any 'expert for hire' scenario.

Different machines/methods - standards?
Influence of tester
Bias in questions - different words/syntax = different loading
Disposition/mental state of subject - nervous subjects can fail when telling the truth; some personality
      disorders can result in passes despite lying
Time frames - the subject's short term/long term memory strengths/weaknesses
Medical conditions - depending on method used.
Accuracy - someone (believe TBM) posted statistics demonstrating lower rates than those claimed on
      daytime TV

Oh, and OJ "If I Did It" Simpson passed a polygraph test...

 How say you MB ? Have you read below ?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9404E7DA163FF936A35755C0A9669C8B63

[Roch]

Thanks , very interesting , from that i take it you truly believed in his innocence , not that you just tried to help or work on his behalf , do you put any significance on JB passing a lie detector ?

Not sure you can take that. You've obviously read Mb1's posts in the other case topics such as:

As someone who (some 2 years after conviction) supported Sion, yet works within the legal profession, I have to be honest and admit that I cannot categorically state his innocence or guilt. However, given the forensic arguments - and, for me, the carrier bag - I believe justice has been served in Sion's case. 

Whether justice has been served for Billie-Jo is a different issue.

So what are you getting at?

I would just like to know of someone in the legal profession , what they thought of JB passing a lie detector test , do they place any weight in this at all , SJ refused a lie detector test after he was cleared , do you MB believe he was right to do so if he had nothing to hide ?

Based solely on what I've read, lie detectors are scientifically worthless. Catchy headlines though!

mb1, can you put any meat on the bones so to speak, about what you have read that has helped you form the opinion re polygraph tests being worthless?  I havent read a great deal about them my self.  Was planning to do so but keep getting tied up in reading threads on here instead!

My personal reticence is 'money' - he who pays the piper calls the tune - although I do accept that this could apply to any 'expert for hire' scenario.

Different machines/methods - standards?
Influence of tester
Bias in questions - different words/syntax = different loading
Disposition/mental state of subject - nervous subjects can fail when telling the truth; some personality
      disorders can result in passes despite lying
Time frames - the subject's short term/long term memory strengths/weaknesses
Medical conditions - depending on method used.
Accuracy - someone (believe TBM) posted statistics demonstrating lower rates than those claimed on
      daytime TV

Oh, and OJ "If I Did It" Simpson passed a polygraph test...

 

Thanks for your opinions on that.  Think I'll post a thread about what puzzles me about the polygraph scenario soon on here.  Along with maybe one or two other points.