She's got the gun

[Steve_uk]

Clearly, she was in the grip of psychosis!  No, not calculated actions - but everything built up inside her -the poor girl was so ill and a danger.

She was ill and in danger,which is why I don't believe the Defence scenario for one moment. She couldn't possibly have achieved half the things ascribed to her in the time,whilst looking clean and fresh as if she had been led out of bed,which is exactly what happened.

[lookout]

But that's no reason to get rid of them. You can't have Sheila as a calculated schemer who wishes to avenge the divorce and also in a grip of psychosis which as we have read from the examples quoted tonight do not follow any rigid pattern.

Sheila " didn't get rid of her children " Steve. Sheila loved her children and sent them to a better place.
Weird as it may sound,,,but Sheila killed them out of love,not hate.

[Steve_uk]

Sheila " didn't get rid of her children " Steve. Sheila loved her children and sent them to a better place.
Weird as it may sound,,,but Sheila killed them out of love,not hate.

But you have to contrast that love in your view to the hate expressed in her parents by slugging June seven times and the struggle with Nevill in the kitchen,being coherent enough to cut off an emergency telephone call yet being in the state of psychosis so necessary for the Defence for all this to have taken place in the first place.

[HMEssex]

She was ill and in danger,which is why I don't believe the Defence scenario for one moment. She couldn't possibly have achieved half the things ascribed to her in the time,whilst looking clean and fresh as if she had been led out of bed,which is exactly what happened.

In your opinion!

No one knows how she behaved that night as we weren't there - she could have gone systematically from one room to another calmly shooting everyone, or have been in a frenzy.  Her looking clean and fresh could denote the former.

[maggie]

But you have to contrast that love in your view to the hate expressed in her parents by slugging June seven times and the struggle with Nevill in the kitchen,being coherent enough to cut off an emergency telephone call yet being in the state of psychosis so necessary for the Defence for all this to have taken place in the first place.

Hi steve, I notice you have now added a new departure about Sheila cutting off Neville's call to Jeremy.  I don't think that is generally suggested.  Personally I would guess Neville cut off his own call by depressing the buttons before phoning the police or just dropping the receiver.  We do not know which phone Neville used to phone Jeremy anyway, it could have very well been the office phone.

[Steve_uk]

Hi steve, I notice you have now added a new departure about Sheila cutting off Neville's call to Jeremy.  I don't think that is generally suggested.  Personally I would guess Neville cut off his own call by depressing the buttons before phoning the police or just dropping the receiver.  We do not know which phone Neville used to phone Jeremy anyway, it could have very well been the office phone.

Well I'm glad we won't be hearing any more of that canard from Scott Lomax,the Jeremy supporters et al for awhile.

[maggie]

Well I'm glad we won't be hearing any more of that canard from Scott Lomax,the Jeremy supporters et al for awhile.

Pardon??

[Steve_uk]

Pardon??

I was introducing Sheila cutting off the call from Nevill because that's what the Jeremy supporters were spouting. As I believe Jeremy to be the perpetrator that morning I don't believe it but consider it in that context. It's an unlikely scenario in my opinion but more likely than the other meagre alternatives on offer.

[Caroline R]

I was introducing Sheila cutting off the call from Nevill because that's what the Jeremy supporters were spouting. As I believe Jeremy to be the perpetrator that morning I don't believe it but consider it in that context. It's an unlikely scenario in my opinion but more likely than the other meagre alternatives on offer.

Who are you talking about Steve? I don't believe that Sheila cut the call off!! You seem to group the JB Supporters together as though we ALL believe the same thing? I'm sure that's not at all true.

[maggie]

I was introducing Sheila cutting off the call from Nevill because that's what the Jeremy supporters were spouting. As I believe Jeremy to be the perpetrator that morning I don't believe it but consider it in that context. It's an unlikely scenario in my opinion but more likely than the other meagre alternatives on offer.

I dont go for that steve. I have heard it suggested but dont think many believe that is what could have happened.

[Nickos]

Sheila " didn't get rid of her children " Steve. Sheila loved her children and sent them to a better place.
Weird as it may sound,,,but Sheila killed them out of love,not hate.

Shooting one of her children in the face three times, and the other poor child five time in the back of the head, is not a sign imo of a "loving" killing.

If Sheila wanted a “loving” killing then all she had to do was get them home and send then "to sleep" with pills, killing herself in a similar, and less painful, way (as opposed to shooting herself in the throat and then head).

If Sheila was to have used a gun (at all) imo it would have been a double barrel shotgun - loading it twice, one cartridge each for the children (sorry for this) and one for herself.

Sheila would not imo have opted to kill all using a multi shot (25 rounds!!), hard to reload rifle, battering Nevill with it etc., but of course this is the scenario laid out by JB when he “conveniently” left the Anschutz out.

JB had to use the Anschutz for continuity, as that is how JB’s plan started - with him using it (allegedly) in an attempt to shoot those rabbits (without tele sights, and the moderator fitted).

[Lugg]

Shooting one of her children in the face three times, and the other poor child five time in the back of the head, is not a sign imo of a "loving" killing.

If Sheila wanted a “loving” killing then all she had to do was get them home and send then "to sleep" with pills, killing herself in a similar, and less painful, way (as opposed to shooting herself in the throat and then head).

If Sheila was to have used a gun (at all) imo it would have been a double barrel shotgun - loading it twice, one cartridge each for the children (sorry for this) and one for herself.

Sheila would not imo have opted to kill all using a multi shot (25 rounds!!), hard to reload rifle, battering Nevill with it etc., but of course this is the scenario laid out by JB when he “conveniently” left the Anschutz out.

JB had to use the Anschutz for continuity, as that is how JB’s plan started - with him using it (allegedly) in an attempt to shoot those rabbits (without tele sights, and the moderator fitted).

Actually Nick you could use the same argument against JB.

[lookout]

Shooting one of her children in the face three times, and the other poor child five time in the back of the head, is not a sign imo of a "loving" killing.

If Sheila wanted a “loving” killing then all she had to do was get them home and send then "to sleep" with pills, killing herself in a similar, and less painful, way (as opposed to shooting herself in the throat and then head).

If Sheila was to have used a gun (at all) imo it would have been a double barrel shotgun - loading it twice, one cartridge each for the children (sorry for this) and one for herself.

Sheila would not imo have opted to kill all using a multi shot (25 rounds!!), hard to reload rifle, battering Nevill with it etc., but of course this is the scenario laid out by JB when he “conveniently” left the Anschutz out.

JB had to use the Anschutz for continuity, as that is how JB’s plan started - with him using it (allegedly) in an attempt to shoot those rabbits (without tele sights, and the moderator fitted).

Nickos,,,if there'd have been a double barrel shotgun around,,,Sheila would have used it regardless,,for as long as it " did the job ",it could have been any sort of a weapon.
If you read about the sad story," Why mothers kill their children " perhaps you'll understand the pattern that mental illness follows,,and the same category where the " devil " was involved.

[Caroline R]

Shooting one of her children in the face three times, and the other poor child five time in the back of the head, is not a sign imo of a "loving" killing.

If Sheila wanted a “loving” killing then all she had to do was get them home and send then "to sleep" with pills, killing herself in a similar, and less painful, way (as opposed to shooting herself in the throat and then head).

If Sheila was to have used a gun (at all) imo it would have been a double barrel shotgun - loading it twice, one cartridge each for the children (sorry for this) and one for herself.

Sheila would not imo have opted to kill all using a multi shot (25 rounds!!), hard to reload rifle, battering Nevill with it etc., but of course this is the scenario laid out by JB when he “conveniently” left the Anschutz out.

JB had to use the Anschutz for continuity, as that is how JB’s plan started - with him using it (allegedly) in an attempt to shoot those rabbits (without tele sights, and the moderator fitted).

By the same token, it would also have been easier for JB to use the 12 bore - but that's not what happened. The 12 bore is the 'logical' answer, the kind of answer you would come to if you had 'planned' such a crime. However, the 22 rifle might be something you would use on the 'spur of the moment' when you weren't thinking 'rationally'.

[lookout]

If schizophrenia isn't fully understood now,,2013,,,then what hope was there in the 1980's when Halpol was about the only medication which was used in severe cases,,, and which today is an outdated medication.
Not forgetting that Sheilas condition had severely deteriorated from her last stay in hospital,,,as whatever her condition was when she was in hospital,,they hadn't managed to control the illness.Whatever Sheila told the psychiatrists and health workers,nobody took her as seriously as they would do today if they told their doctor that they could " harm the children,or commit suicide ",,,,which is what Sheila spoke of.
In all honesty,,Sheila was badly let down and crying out for help which she didn't get. There was no follow-up support from health or social services which a GP arranges,,nothing. This poor girl suffered.