Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath

[Jane]

------------A reflection of my childhood,perhaps ??

Lookout, you have told me very succinctly how your childhood was. Yours typed words say one thing, but YOU and your approach tell something entirely different. You're perfectly entitled to blame your childhood for anything you now see as being worthy of it. If you've managed to rise above it, good for you, but make no mistake, it STILL effects you or you wouldn't feel the need to add your voice to mine.

[lookout]

Lookout, you have told me very succinctly how your childhood was. Yours typed words say one thing, but YOU and your approach tell something entirely different. You're perfectly entitled to blame your childhood for anything you now see as being worthy of it. If you've managed to rise above it, good for you, but make no mistake, it STILL effects you or you wouldn't feel the need to add your voice to mine.

t wouldn't affect me at all if you didn't keep broaching that particular subject.

[Jane]

The book you are talking about does not resonate with all adoptees (including myself)

The author herself is not adopted so I find it odd IMO

I'm glad that is the case for you, David.

It isn't odd. It's empathy.

[Jane]

t wouldn't affect me at all if you didn't keep broaching that particular subject.

Are you saying that it's fine as long as it remains buried? I'm fully prepared to take responsibility for what I say but I can't take responsibility for how those words will be accepted because everyone they reach will hear them differently.

[Caroline]

Arrogance ? I don't know the meaning of the word in my own world. You have to be in a different world in which to display arrogance. Maybe you're getting mixed up with the word " pride ",which is a far cry from having an attitude.
I'm not disallowing you from the" privilege" of rubbing it in that you were adopted,but please--------you're not the only one and you speak of it as though it's some dreadful doom which it isn't. Where would we be without it ? At the same time,there are millions who weren't adopted but went on to have horrific lives because of their backgrounds and what you don't seem to understand is that biological children suffer Hell too. Look at the figures of mental health in the under 11's. They're not all adopted. Even as young as 5 are reporting symptoms such as anxiety,etc.
Both Sheila and Jeremy did very well during their childhood years and it was up to them,nobody else, to balance themselves out in preparation for adulthood. You can't wipe their behinds all their lives,and the same applies to any child,adopted or not,that they should have gained some understanding of what the future holds and to prepare themselves for that time.
With a solid background,it should be achieved.

Adoption should NEVER be used as an excuse in any way. I find it insulting and unnecessary. Once a child finds its own way in life,why should it be the fault of adoption if things go wrong,or don't go to plan ?
It's like druggies being blamed for crime.The excuse being,he was taking drugs,or " he was drunk and didn't know what he was doing "-------------RUBBISH !

Yes you're right, your statement is rubbish! People use drugs and drink by choice - kids don't choose to be adopted and have no control over the process!

[Steve_uk]

Your going to take the word of a man who assumed him guilty and stood to inherit the estate on the basis of a guilty verdict?

If the allegation that Jeremy said "I could easily kill my parents" came from say someone who worked with him in Little Chef or someone he was with on the Scuba diving course for example. someone who has no conflict of interest Then I would not have much reason to doubt the authenticity of the allegation.

David I too am interested in Caroline's assertion that Jeremy mentioned the burning of the house plot to someone else. Do you not find it disconcerting that James Richards, a student at the time but who later went on to become a high ranking army official was prepared to stand up in court and testify that Jeremy told him "I f***ing hate my parents", when Jeremy has always denied saying these words, even in jest.

As far as your new evidence is concerned I'm sure we'd all like to know what you've discovered..

[lookout]

Yes you're right, your statement is rubbish! People use drugs and drink by choice - kids don't choose to be adopted and have no control over the process!

I think it's lovely that children are adopted rather than face a future of uncertainty,and I look at it in a way where the children had been chosen,in cases where it's medically impossible to bear their own. The children not only fill that void but are usually the longed-for child that had been wanted so badly and there must be many who are very happy,which continues into adult life.
Afterall,life is what you make it.
There are thousands who don't feel adopted and it SHOULDN'T make any difference so far as I'm concerned. A friend once told me that we're all God's children,no matter what.

[Steve_uk]

Don't you think that with blood relations there's usually something a child can latch onto in adolescence-a trait from one or both parents that the child can relate to and which reassures as they develop? As far as Nevill and June went they tried their best but they really were intimate strangers at White House Farm.

[Caroline]

I think it's lovely that children are adopted rather than face a future of uncertainty,and I look at it in a way where the children had been chosen,in cases where it's medically impossible to bear their own. The children not only fill that void but are usually the longed-for child that had been wanted so badly and there must be many who are very happy,which continues into adult life.
Afterall,life is what you make it.
There are thousands who don't feel adopted and it SHOULDN'T make any difference so far as I'm concerned. A friend once told me that we're all God's children,no matter what.

It doesn't matter what you or I think, we have no experience of what it's like to be adopted or to adopt. Jane and Maggie have experience and we can bot LEARN from such experience. I think it's obvious that some adoptees will feel resentment - not all - but quite a few and I think it's clear that Jeremy was/is one of them.

[Jane]

I think it's lovely that children are adopted rather than face a future of uncertainty,and I look at it in a way where the children had been chosen,in cases where it's medically impossible to bear their own. The children not only fill that void but are usually the longed-for child that had been wanted so badly and there must be many who are very happy,which continues into adult life.
Afterall,life is what you make it.
There are thousands who don't feel adopted and it SHOULDN'T make any difference so far as I'm concerned. A friend once told me that we're all God's children,no matter what.

I try to eliminate "should" and "shouldn't" from my vocabulary. In my experience it isn't possible to go beyond "is/isn't". Sadly, childhood frequently ISN'T the idealized version you seem to think it is.

[Jane]

Don't you think that with blood relations there's usually something a child can latch onto in adolescence-a trait from one or both parents that the child can relate to and which reassures as they develop? As far as Nevill and June went they tried their best but they really were intimate strangers at White House Farm.

Absolutely Steve. My own parents were told that if I was treated like "one of you" IT, my mother's word, would "be like one of you". Just HOW did they believe such was possible?

[lookout]

Of course,this is the crux of the whole debate------------that Jeremy had been adopted. Blame that,shall we ?
Children learn from and are guided by their parents whatever the circumstances,and I would have said that Jeremy was June's favourite,whereas he looked up and respected his father as most balanced sons do.
Sheila had far more to chirp about than Jeremy did. I don't remember it spoken of that Sheila was as interested in baking,etc as her brother was. Neither did he seem interested in contacting his birth parents,which Sheila might have felt a pang about not knowing who her father was,among other things she'd been through and was going through at the time.
There was a whole multitude of problems in Sheila's short life which were enough to send the strongest person over the edge.
Both siblings were so different in every way,not because they were adopted because you can get this in bological families too,and this is where the skill of parenting comes in where each child is treated according to their character/persona. You can't expect clones.
Parenting doesn't come easy to many if the instinct isn't there as there's more to raising children than food on the table,clean beds and money. June and Neville were like the many--------clueless,but they did the best they could.
Unfortunately,what must have seemed like a disturbance wasn't just the adoption process,but the many different faces of au-pairs/childminders who would have had a different approach in looking after the children so that was another unknown area in their lives. Stability matters and counts for a lot in a child's life,growing up. Seeing mum ill,then being whsked off. The same instability that Sheila's twins went through.
It wasn't quite dysfunctional but it wasn't far off.

[Steve_uk]

Well given the weight of evidence the guilters are attempting an explanation as to why a young man with more prospects at the time than most came to slaughter his entire family. Adoption is only one factor in this gross alienation where not only do you not miss or mourn your intended victims but you justify to yourself that you've somehow done the right thing.

[maggie]

Don't you think that with blood relations there's usually something a child can latch onto in adolescence-a trait from one or both parents that the child can relate to and which reassures as they develop? As far as Nevill and June went they tried their best but they really were intimate strangers at White House Farm.

i don't agree completey with that Steve. There is the ld question of Nature and Nurture and it is true that nature is very strong in all of us, however if a baby who bonds well with their replacement mother and grows up in a very secure and loving home they can grow very like their mother.  They can be perfectly happy and at ease in that family unit, their problems come in different areas which can cause feelings of unexplained anxiety and stress.
An adoptive process and bonding is a two way process... the mother has to want and love the baby whoever that baby is, she must give every ounce of herself to the child and always put them first and never, ever even think they don't come first, they don't 'fit in', they should be thankful  etc.  It is a life commitment which makes a mother completely vulnerable to another human being but I believe that is the only way.  It is in fact good parenting but being aware every day how lucky you are to have your beautiful child.

Don't think the Bamber's understood the needs of their children at all, the fact they sent them to boarding school at such young ages speaks volumes.  No one would ever have made me send my children away at 8 years of age or any other time, I would have killed to keep them.

[Jane]

Of course,this is the crux of the whole debate------------that Jeremy had been adopted. Blame that,shall we ?
Children learn from and are guided by their parents whatever the circumstances,and I would have said that Jeremy was June's favourite,whereas he looked up and respected his father as most balanced sons do.
Sheila had far more to chirp about than Jeremy did. I don't remember it spoken of that Sheila was as interested in baking,etc as her brother was. Neither did he seem interested in contacting his birth parents,which Sheila might have felt a pang about not knowing who her father was,among other things she'd been through and was going through at the time.
There was a whole multitude of problems in Sheila's short life which were enough to send the strongest person over the edge.
Both siblings were so different in every way,not because they were adopted because you can get this in bological families too,and this is where the skill of parenting comes in where each child is treated according to their character/persona. You can't expect clones.
Parenting doesn't come easy to many if the instinct isn't there as there's more to raising children than food on the table,clean beds and money. June and Neville were like the many--------clueless,but they did the best they could.
Unfortunately,what must have seemed like a disturbance wasn't just the adoption process,but the many different faces of au-pairs/childminders who would have had a different approach in looking after the children so that was another unknown area in their lives. Stability matters and counts for a lot in a child's life,growing up. Seeing mum ill,then being whsked off. The same instability that Sheila's twins went through.
It wasn't quite dysfunctional but it wasn't far off.

Patterns repeat, Lookout. The tragedy is that we don't recognize the patterns. I'm appalled that I heard myself using the same words, to my then husband's children, as my mother used to me. I didn't think about it. It was automatic. I had no other frame of reference. The ironic thing is, I didn't LIKE the words. They didn't taste right but I didn't know how to do it differently. I have since apologized to them. Bless them, they said their own mother had been much worse than I so they hadn't noticed. Make no mistake, just because Jeremy didn't express his feeling DOESN'T mean he was devoid of them.