Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath

[Caroline]

But Sheila was also adopted and sent off to boarding school. Why would Jeremy be angry about being adopted?  Lots of people are adopted like Steve Jobs and Michael Gove.  They are not angry are they?

Most people I know don't have a temper at all.  I have a friend who was adopted and she's very laid back and I have never known her to be angry.

Jeremy was annoyed with Susan Battersley squeezing his neck with dairy cream.  A bit insensitive I would say when you could say a dairy cream cannister sprayed on his neck might have reminded him of gunshots to his family.

It reminds me of that nasty b***h that shouted "bang, bang" at PC David Rathband

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/jun/27/woman-jail-raoul-moat-jeer

Of course not all adopted kids are angry - but I believe Jeremy was. Sheila was able to meet her birth mother but I believe Jeremy was afraid of yet more rejection. Instead he just dismissed it as something he wasn't interested in.

Everyone has some kind of temper - it doesn't mean you will see it.

Yes, I get you point, perhaps when Susan sprayed the cream, he had a flash back to shooting Sheila.

[David1819]

Colin did say that Jeremy used to break the heads off the flowers in the garden

OH MY GOD    I've broken heads off flowers before. sometimes even pulled them out the ground! How many members of my family does than mean I've killed?

 

[maggie]

OH MY GOD    I've broken heads off flowers before. sometimes even pulled them out the ground! How many members of my family does than mean I've killed?

 

Very funny David, 

[Caroline]

Jeremy works on the farm, he has to shoot pests.

There is no substance to this claim. you take a leap of faith

Yes, that how he saw his family!

There is no substance to you claims either - doesn't stop you to referring to them as FACTS though.

[JackiePreece]

Hi Jackie, All babies removed from their mothers in the first couple of years of life suffer from loss and difficulties with attachment.  It is a proven fact and if they don't get bond with a permanent replacement mother/carer they will suffer all their lives.  Even those who bond and grow up in secure loving homes have problems with self worth etc.  I recommend The Primal Wound... it explains about the adoptee, the adoptive mother and the natural mother and their feelings and emotions.  Worth a read.
Steve |Jobs is dead and I know nothing about his adoptive family but his drive to succeed and prove himself may have stemed from his lack of self worth etc.  Michael Gove another one who needed to be top dog, goodness knows what goes on in that head. ....

Maggie I dont know anything about adoption.  I would have thought if you grow up in loving family home it is ok?  What about children who are abused by thier natural family? 

If a baby is adopted and grows up in loving family as Sheila and Jeremy did with Nevill and June how can this compare with children who are abused by their natural parents?

Loads of cases this year where babies or small children have died at the hands of their natural parents. 

I dont agree with you Maggie.

[David1819]

Yes, that how he saw his family!

There is no substance to you claims either - doesn't stop you to referring to them as FACTS though.

No substance to my claims? 

[maggie]

Maggie I dont know anything about adoption.  I would have thought if you grow up in loving family home it is ok?  What about children who are abused by thier natural family? 

If a baby is adopted and grows up in loving family as Sheila and Jeremy did with Nevill and June how can this compare with children who are abused by their natural parents?

Loads of cases this year where babies or small children have died at the hands of their natural parents. 

I dont agree with you Maggie.

Hi Jackie if you know nothing about adoption how can you disagree with me?  Anyway, you are disagreeing with experts on the subject not with me.

Did they grow up in a loving home?  We have heard over and over again that there was a lack of hugs and cuddles from either parent.  June and Nevil may have loved both children but they were poor at showing it and adopted children need more love than natural children if anything.
It's true many children are abused by their natural parents but that is a completely different issue.  You know all this Jackie and it's late so I'm off now. cheers

[John]

Yes, there was him but he did mention to someone about burning the house down. I'll have to try and remember. It's a cast of thousands! 

I bet there a few guys in New Zealand who could tell a few tales about him!

[John]

Jeremy works on the farm, he has to shoot pests.

There is no substance to this claim. you take a leap of faith

She hated guns so Caroline is probably correct.  The person who murdered the family was proficient not only with rifles but with that particular rifle.  Hitmen don't go out on hits relying on a weapon to be sitting there ready.  In any event how would a hitman know...

1.  That the family would all be in residence

and

2.  That a weapon was available?

I'm afraid whichever way one looks at this case Jeremy Bamber is guilty.

[John]

No substance to my claims? 

When are you going to post this magical new evidence Dave?

[Caroline]

When are you going to post this magical new evidence Dave?

David has built up his part somewhat 

[David1819]

He told RWB "I could easily kill my parents".

Your going to take the word of a man who assumed him guilty and stood to inherit the estate on the basis of a guilty verdict?

If the allegation that Jeremy said "I could easily kill my parents" came from say someone who worked with him in Little Chef or someone he was with on the Scuba diving course for example. someone who has no conflict of interest Then I would not have much reason to doubt the authenticity of the allegation.

[JackiePreece]

Hi Jackie if you know nothing about adoption how can you disagree with me?  Anyway, you are disagreeing with experts on the subject not with me.

Did they grow up in a loving home?  We have heard over and over again that there was a lack of hugs and cuddles from either parent.  June and Nevil may have loved both children but they were poor at showing it and adopted children need more love than natural children if anything.
It's true many children are abused by their natural parents but that is a completely different issue.  You know all this Jackie and it's late so I'm off now. cheers

I was meaning that I disagree with you that Steve Jobs needed to prove himself and Michael Gove needs to be top dog because they were adopted.  That's a rubbish argument Maggie. 

Bill Gates - Microsoft - not adopted
Larry Page - Google - not adopted
Mark Zuckenburg - Facebook - not adopted
Steve Jobs - Apple - adopted

David Cameron - Tory pm - not adopted
George Osborn - Tory chancellor - not adopted
Boris Johnson - Tory ? -  not adopted
Michael Grove -  Tory ? - adopted

I don't see any connection with adoption.

You're doing what the family and police did being prejudiced against Jeremy because he was adopted and saying he was bad and would kill his family.

I've seen photos of June with her arms round Sheila and Jeremy.  And photos of June and Nevill being affectionate with the twins.

When I was on Jeremy's phone list he talked of a happy life before prison.

This is your post I was referring to.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg364346.html#msg364346

[Jane]

Maggie I dont know anything about adoption.  I would have thought if you grow up in loving family home it is ok?  What about children who are abused by thier natural family? 

If a baby is adopted and grows up in loving family as Sheila and Jeremy did with Nevill and June how can this compare with children who are abused by their natural parents?

Loads of cases this year where babies or small children have died at the hands of their natural parents. 

I dont agree with you Maggie.

I suppose it depends on how one defines "loving" Jackie. When I was adopted -not overly long before Sheila- it would have been thought loving ENOUGH for "good, Christian people" to give a home to and spend their money on a "flawed" child. I had expensive "things" thrown at me like money was going out of fashion -the kudos for this generosity was my parents'- and gave them a reason to compound my guilt feelings by reminding me, on a regular basis, of what they'd spent on me. Abusing children is NEVER right. If it isn't right to do it to one's own child, it's even less right to do it to someone else's.

[maggie]

I was meaning that I disagree with you that Steve Jobs needed to prove himself and Michael Gove needs to be top dog because they were adopted.  That's a rubbish argument Maggie. 

Bill Gates - Microsoft - not adopted
Larry Page - Google - not adopted
Mark Zuckenburg - Facebook - not adopted
Steve Jobs - Apple - adopted

David Cameron - Tory pm - not adopted
George Osborn - Tory chancellor - not adopted
Boris Johnson - Tory ? -  not adopted
Michael Grove -  Tory ? - adopted

I don't see any connection with adoption.

You're doing what the family and police did being prejudiced against Jeremy because he was adopted and saying he was bad and would kill his family.

I've seen photos of June with her arms round Sheila and Jeremy.  And photos of June and Nevill being affectionate with the twins.

When I was on Jeremy's phone list he talked of a happy life before prison.

This is your post I was referring to.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,3851.msg364346.html#msg364346

I am not doing any such thing, I am putting forward the point of view that Jeremy could have had as much or even more anger/resentment than Sheila because adoption scars people.

I have no idea what Steve Jobs was like as a person, have you?  I don't know what his fears and insecurities were, I know when he was dying he regretted putting his whole life into climbing the greasy pole rather than putting his energy into love and relationships, which he realised are all that is important in life.   My answer to you was just a quick thought before I signed off last night. My real answer is the above...... I don't know, .... how could I?  So I would say it's an unfair question not a rubbish answer.

The argument I was using is taken from a highly admired study on adoption they are not my own personal theories.

As I have said many times, I have an open mind on the case with reservations on both sides.

As much as I can see there are possibilities of guilt on either side I also feel that June has been given a bad press in the same way that Sheila has been by some.

Having recently finished Colin's book I take on board June had a difficult and apparently controlling personality, possibly a product of her own mental illness which she had suffered from very badly at times.  However, Nevil was also lacking, he also seemed to not hand out close parental love and hugs to his children. He did not seem to worry or see any need to compensate for June's lack of ability to give warmth and love.  So, although hailed as Sheila's rock I would guess he was in some ways more supportive because he was naturally more outgoing and gregarious but the wicked June versus the fantastic Nevill arguments don't stand up for me, they both seemed to lack parenting skills imo.

All families are a mishmash of different emotions, success and failures, no one is perfect, we all have our failings, it's human nature but in a secure and loving family there is understanding and forgiveness with love as a glue which holds people together overcoming irritations, hurt and frustrations.
If the glue isn't there because of dysfunction and early emotional neglect children grow up damaged and unable to deal with their feelings. If children don't learn by example and respect from their parents that their opinions matter, that they count and are important in their own right, those children can grow up severely damaged.