Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath

[David1819]

Says the law but I believe the law is far too harsh when dealing with mental illness, which is a disease of the brain. 
Its no wonder the general public are so frightened of mental illness when the law treats such people so badly.

The vast majority of schizophrenics are not murderers so if a schizophrenic commits murder schizophrenia alone is no excuse

[Steve_uk]

Yes I believe Sheila shot herself twice around 3.30 as that is what all the evidence suggests to me.

I see you've highlighted the words "radiating" and "radiations" and I think therein lies the answer.   

As I said yesterday the Dickinson report makes it clear a pathologist, biologist and ballistics expert should have been called to scene of crime to observe everything in-situ and work together as a team.  Unfortunately for Jeremy this didn't happen.  As a consequence the relatives and low ranking police officers were in a position to fill the knowledge gap and influence the direction and outcome.

Vanezis didn't give any indication of time of death.  I understand this is always difficult and unreliable.

Craig certified the deaths around 8.30am.  He said the deaths could have happened any time the previous night.  The body goes through various stages after death.  If Sheila died significantly later than the other victims, say around 7.30am as opposed to 3.30am, then surely it would be obvious? 

It is clear Sheila didn't move after the first gunshot due to the lack of blood staining to her nightie.  Coupled with Vanezis' evidence regarding the haemorrhaging showing the two gunshot wounds happened within a few seconds.

I am also of this view. How on earth within this framework can you manage to fit the bashing of Nevill, the struggle in the kitchen for control of the gun, the physical contact with her mother, the cut off telephone call, all leaving the culprit in a peaceful and serene condition..

[Caroline]

I am also of this view. How on earth within this framework can you manage to fit the bashing of Nevill, the struggle in the kitchen for control of the gun, the physical contact with her mother, the cut off telephone call, all leaving the culprit in a peaceful and serene condition..

Because it clearly didn't happen that way. Jeremy could have had quite a lot of blood on him when he left, he had time to clean up. Sheila didn't fight with anyone - that's obvious! Craig also said that the blood around her mouth was dried - he saw he at 08:40 - before she was even photographed.

[sami]

Because it clearly didn't happen that way. Jeremy could have had quite a lot of blood on him when he left, he had time to clean up. Sheila didn't fight with anyone - that's obvious! Craig also said that the blood around her mouth was dried - he saw he at 08:40 - before she was even photographed.

correct.sheila was not involved in any fight

[JackiePreece]

I am also of this view. How on earth within this framework can you manage to fit the bashing of Nevill, the struggle in the kitchen for control of the gun, the physical contact with her mother, the cut off telephone call, all leaving the culprit in a peaceful and serene condition..

It's clear Nevill was dead, or nearly dead, when he was hit with whatever, probably the rifle.  I don't think there was any "struggle" in the kitchen as Nevill was to badly injured.  I've not heard of pysical contact with June?  Don't believe this.  Was the telephone call cut?  I think Nevill just left the receiver on the top.

Exactly.  If Jeremy wanted to Kill Sheila against her will she would obviously resist and would not have looked "peaceful and serene".

[JackiePreece]

Because it clearly didn't happen that way. Jeremy could have had quite a lot of blood on him when he left, he had time to clean up. Sheila didn't fight with anyone - that's obvious! Craig also said that the blood around her mouth was dried - he saw he at 08:40 - before she was even photographed.

Nevill, June and the twins were first shot at distance although no more than a feet or so.  This changes blood pressure so blood will not spurt out of later gunshots or injuries from beating with rifle or even stabbing.  Even I know this 

[Steve_uk]

It's clear Nevill was dead, or nearly dead, when he was hit with whatever, probably the rifle.  I don't think there was any "struggle" in the kitchen as Nevill was to badly injured.  I've not heard of pysical contact with June?  Don't believe this.  Was the telephone call cut?  I think Nevill just left the receiver on the top.

Exactly.  If Jeremy wanted to Kill Sheila against her will she would obviously resist and would not have looked "peaceful and serene".

But there was no blood on the telephone, and it's just beyond credibility that the murders happened that way. Everything that we know of Sheila that past week(vacant stare at the party, silent in the car on the journey to the White House, quiet and withdrawn in the shop in Tiptree, exhausted on the telephone to Auntie Pam) shows her mental condition and it is quite conceivable that she was led to her death like a lamb to the slaughter..

[Steve_uk]

Nevill, June and the twins were first shot at distance although no more than a feet or so.  This changes blood pressure so blood will not spurt out of later gunshots or injuries from beating with rifle or even stabbing.  Even I know this 

..and no random shots which missed, from a woman in the grips of a psychosis.

[Caroline]

Nevill, June and the twins were first shot at distance although no more than a feet or so.  This changes blood pressure so blood will not spurt out of later gunshots or injuries from beating with rifle or even stabbing.  Even I know this 

Well perhaps you should have thought about how the impact of the rifle on the poor man's skull would cause blood spatter. 

[Steve_uk]

Well perhaps you should have thought about how the impact of the rifle on the poor man's skull would cause blood spatter.

Blood on Jeremy's clothing in the closet at Bourtree Cottage might have wound this case up thirty years ago.

[JackiePreece]

But there was no blood on the telephone, and it's just beyond credibility that the murders happened that way. Everything that we know of Sheila that past week(vacant stare at the party, silent in the car on the journey to the White House, quiet and withdrawn in the shop in Tiptree, exhausted on the telephone to Auntie Pam) shows her mental condition and it is quite conceivable that she was led to her death like a lamb to the slaughter..

Why would there be blood on the phone?

Being quite and withdrawn is one thing. Being "led to her death like a lamb to the slaughter.." is quite different. 

[Steve_uk]

Why would there be blood on the phone?

Being quite and withdrawn is one thing. Being "led to her death like a lamb to the slaughter.." is quite different.

The Jeremy supporters want it all ways so much the story becomes a gross distortion of what took place that August morning. It is incredible that there is a purported telephone call from Nevill which has to happen before he is injured and impossible for Sheila to have accomplished all that was ascribed to her. So what if there's blood on Sheila's feet anyway: she was walking to her death on a bloodied carpet all of her brother's making.

[JackiePreece]

..and no random shots which missed, from a woman in the grips of a psychosis.

Difficult to miss when the targets were mostly still and within two or three foot away.

How do you know she was "a woman in the grips of psychoses"?  Just because she was sometimes psychoses doesn't mean she was always psychoses.  Maybe she was just depressed or very angry and not psychoses.

Here's a man that wasn't psychoses.  He was just very angry.  He killed his wife, two children and the two pet dogs 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1327536/Life-for-father-who-killed-wife-and-children.html

Steve there's lots online about this case.  The name is Philip Austin.  It is said he had no mental illness just very angry.

For those that think Sheila was responsible if we say she was psychoses how would we know?  Are we saying those that suffer psychoses aren't at times vary angry but without psychoses? 

[David1819]

The Jeremy supporters want it all ways so much the story becomes a gross distortion of what took place that August morning. It is incredible that there is a purported telephone call from Nevill which has to happen before he is injured and impossible for Sheila to have accomplished all that was ascribed to her. So what if there's blood on Sheila's feet anyway: she was walking to her death on a bloodied carpet all of her brother's making.

If Sheila committed the murders Neville rang before he was shot, its that's simple and perfectly plausible. What is interesting that during Nevill's alleged phone call to Jeremy he mentions Sheila having the gun not that she had shot anyone.

This actually corroborates the crime scene. And in my opinion Jeremy is not at all smart enough to be that forensically aware to orchestrate such detail. If he is guilty its just another thing that's happened to fall in place in his favour, if he did think of it he would have mentioned it 

[lookout]

It was June who was doing the walking around dripping blood all around where Sheila lay,then at the window,where she was possibly seen as " the trick of the light ".
Was June the last person to die ? I'm beginning to think so.