Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath

[Steve_uk]

What facts? You stating ANY facts!! Just because only 2 of JB's prints were found and 1 of Sheila's, it doesn't mean the gun was wiped or that there were no other prints!! It simply means that they were not able to recover a full identifiable prinst because they were smudged etc. Please point out once and for all where IN THE EVIDENCE and not from a book it states the rifle had been wiped clean?

It's not in any court evidence,but to suggest that Sheila did all the actions the Defence ascribes her within 22 minutes is incredible to say the least.

[lookout]

Can you post all these documents lookout,along with Sheila's £40,000 drug debts. As far as I was aware Sheila's body was moved if only to check for a pulse and it was then that the fresh plugs of blood occurred.

Information is in the Archives,Steve. Whatever you want to know is there.

[Lugg]

Hi Lugg, I see Steve's reasoning in so far as if only Jeremy's fingerprints were found on the rifle well it would be immaterial as to whether he had handled the gun the night before, he would have been the only person to have handled the gun. 
However, if he was setting a scene trying to implicate Sheila surely he would have just pressed her palms, fingers etc. all over the gun without having to worry about his own.  This would have been far more convincing and not hard to do. 
My guess is that the police wiped the gun for some unexplained and incompetent reason.

Of course the police wiped the gun clean. They were the last people to handle it and they weren't treating the scene like a crime scene. As you say Jeremy's prints were not a problem and even if he was in a struggle with Ralph then he would most certainly have plastered Sheila's prints all over it. Because how could someone shoot themselves without getting their fingerprints all over the gun? Two questions arise from this. (1) Why was even one of Sheila's prints on the gun? (2) Where do the gloves that he was supposed to have used fit into this senario? Because even if he was wearing gloves he would still have the problem of Ralph's prints being on the gun.

[Steve_uk]

Of course the police wiped the gun clean. They were the last people to handle it and they weren't treating the scene like a crime scene. As you say Jeremy's prints were not a problem and even if he was in a struggle with Ralph then he would most certainly have plastered Sheila's prints all over it. Because how could someone shoot themselves without getting their fingerprints all over the gun? Two questions arise from this. (1) Why was even one of Sheila's prints on the gun? (2) Where do the gloves that he was supposed to have used fit into this senario? Because even if he was wearing gloves he would still have the problem of Ralph's prints being on the gun.

That's why Jeremy had to wipe the gun. The wearing of gloves and their destruction is a minor part to the proceedings and would present no problem to Jeremy,who was obviously in some cocaine-induced state oblivious to correct procedure inside the Farm,hence only the one fingerprint of Sheila's pressed onto the gun after death. The Defence has to explain why there was only one of Sheila's prints on the gun,not the Prosecution. To claim that the Police wiped the gun before fingerprinting took place is a lame excuse.

[maggie]

Of course the police wiped the gun clean. They were the last people to handle it and they weren't treating the scene like a crime scene. As you say Jeremy's prints were not a problem and even if he was in a struggle with Ralph then he would most certainly have plastered Sheila's prints all over it. Because how could someone shoot themselves without getting their fingerprints all over the gun? Two questions arise from this. (1) Why was even one of Sheila's prints on the gun? (2) Where do the gloves that he was supposed to have used fit into this senario? Because even if he was wearing gloves he would still have the problem of Ralph's prints being on the gun.

Correct Lugg You can almost see it.  The police handling the gun and then ooops, maybe shouldn't have done that, have you got a hankie better give it a wipe.   

[maggie]

That's why Jeremy had to wipe the gun. The wearing of gloves and their destruction is a minor part to the proceedings and would present no problem to Jeremy,who was obviously in some cocaine-induced state oblivious to correct procedure inside the Farm,hence only the one fingerprint of Sheila's pressed onto the gun after death. The Defence has to explain why there was only one of Sheila's prints on the gun,not the Prosecution. To claim that the Police wiped the gun before fingerprinting took place is a lame excuse.

Steve, suddenly we have Jeremy now in a cocaine induced state....how did he manage to turn up at the farm a very short time later in a calm and normal state, no sign of a 'cocaine induced state', shakes from adrenaline....nothing.  A person on cocaine is not in control steve.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, suddenly we have Jeremy now in a cocaine induced state....how did he manage to turn up at the farm a very short time later in a calm and normal state, no sign of a 'cocaine induced state', shakes from adrenaline....nothing.  A person on cocaine is not in control steve.

No but they have dilated pupils as narrated by Ann Eaton. If I were you I would take the cocaine-induced Jeremy Bamber as an explanation for his crimes as a kind of plea bargain I have offered heretofore but which has as yet been rejected out of hand.

[lookout]

No but they have dilated pupils as narrated by Ann Eaton. If I were you I would take the cocaine-induced Jeremy Bamber as an explanation for his crimes as a kind of plea bargain I have offered heretofore but which has as yet been rejected out of hand.

And what did Ann Eaton know about dilated pupils.? Or better still,,how did she know.?

[maggie]

Steve, suddenly we have Jeremy now in a cocaine induced state....how did he manage to turn up at the farm a very short time later in a calm and normal state, no sign of a 'cocaine induced state', shakes from adrenaline....nothing.  A person on cocaine is not in control steve.

A Cocaine 'high' lasts from between 30mins to 2 hours, not very long if within that time Jeremy had to get to and from WHF.  With no idea how long his high would last it's all a bit unpredictable. Also it's taken for a good time, it makes people very talkative and happy.  You tend to love everyone when on a high.  The low afterward can be so bad it can cause suicidal thoughts.

I don't believe anyone would take cocaine on it's own to help them kill. 
Maybe cocaine mixed with other drugs, possibly not even available back in 1985 and certainly the effects of these drugs could never have worn off in such a short time.imo 

[maggie]

And what did Ann Eaton know about dilated pupils.? Or better still,,how did she know.?

Oh Lookout, the dilated pupils!!! 
Lookout, when a person is up all night without food or with a small amount of food am I right in saying the body will become low in blood sugar?  A physical sign of low blood sugar is dilated pupils.  Jeremy Bamber would surely have been suffering from low blood sugar......hence dilated pupils......simple

Lookout I wonder if anyone thought Jeremy had been eating pear drops???
 

[Caroline R]

It's not in any court evidence,but to suggest that Sheila did all the actions the Defence ascribes her within 22 minutes is incredible to say the least.

Ok Thank you!! Had the gun been wiped by JB it would MOST CERTAINLY have been part of the evidence. If it had been 'wiped' or the prints 'damaged' then this is likely to have occurred during the police 'mishandling' of the evidence and nothing to do with Julie's 'story' of events.

[lookout]

Oh Lookout, the dilated pupils!!! 
Lookout, when a person is up all night without food or with a small amount of food am I right in saying the body will become low in blood sugar?  A physical sign of low blood sugar is dilated pupils.  Jeremy Bamber would surely have been suffering from low blood sugar......hence dilated pupils......simple

Lookout I wonder if anyone thought Jeremy had been eating pear drops???

Maggie,emotion can make the pupils dilated.
 All the rellies seemed to be doing was finding fault all the time . Why.? What had Jeremy done to them.?

[lookout]

Oh Lookout, the dilated pupils!!! 
Lookout, when a person is up all night without food or with a small amount of food am I right in saying the body will become low in blood sugar?  A physical sign of low blood sugar is dilated pupils.  Jeremy Bamber would surely have been suffering from low blood sugar......hence dilated pupils......simple

Lookout I wonder if anyone thought Jeremy had been eating pear drops???

Ohhh,I'm so terribly sorry Maggie.I've only just noticed your status. Congratulations.

[maggie]

Maggie,emotion can make the pupils dilated.
 All the rellies seemed to be doing was finding fault all the time . Why.? What had Jeremy done to them.?

Yes that's true lookout, so its unsurprising that morning Jeremy Bamber's pupils were dilated.  I would be surprised if Anne Eaton had any more than the vaguest idea about drugs and pretty well everyone knows that they can dilate the pupils......as can many other things.

[maggie]

Ohhh,I'm so terribly sorry Maggie.I've only just noticed your status. Congratulations.

Thank you Lookout, no probs.  After you said that I just went and had a look, hadn't seen it myself til now.....think I may need an avatar, must give it some thought.