Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath

[Steve_uk]

Steve, I always enjoy a piece of good fiction - and this is exactly what this is.

I could use my imagination too and say that Sheila did this to "please" her mother. It was June who had called Sheila "the Devil´s child", and following that, Sheila saw her sons as "the Devil´s children." She could have done this as a "sacrifice" to clean the world of all this Devil´s spawn! In her schizophrenic mind, she could have thought they were all going to heaven together, cleansed. Mixed with feelings of resentment and revenge perhaps.

But that is fiction too...

But according to the Defence Sheila was still wandering around inside the farmhouse when the Police arrived. Paranoid schizophrenics do not act to our rules,they don't fall into the category of "I've been wronged by my family and I'm going to teach them a lesson" suicide. They follow their own logic. Sheila might well have been proud of what she had accomplished and what better way to show it than to inform the Police Officers on arrival of what she had done.

[lookout]

Lookout you talk of turning the gun on themselves..how many women with schizophrenia in America where the gun culture as you know is far more prevalent have used guns to kill their children and then themselves? Did Catherine Murch have schizophrenia..it's the only case I can recall out of the 150 million or so women in America,because using firearms is a man's crime.

The subject is called Filicide---Suicide. Parents/mothers who kill their children,then themselves. Majority have psychotic problems or some sort of mental-health issues.

[Caroline R]

But according to the Defence Sheila was still wandering around inside the farmhouse when the Police arrived. Paranoid schizophrenics do not act to our rules,they don't fall into the category of "I've been wronged by my family and I'm going to teach them a lesson" suicide. They follow their own logic. Sheila might well have been proud of what she had accomplished and what better way to show it than to inform the Police Officers on arrival of what she had done.

Having lived with one for most of my life whilst growing up, I can say with confidence that you don't know anything about paranoid schizophrenics. And no one said that Sheila killed the family out of revenge, it's you who keeps talking about revenge!! She was ill, she lost it whatever her reason at the time, they made sense to her but it was NOTHING to do with revenge!!! probably more to do with fear!!

[Steve_uk]

Well, the whole topic of murder is something we ladies shouldn't worry our pretty little heads about  . What a ridiculous thing to say Steve!!

Caroline I'm looking at the statistics for suicide among schizophrenic women who kill their children with a gun.

[Steve_uk]

Having lived with one for most of my life whilst growing up, I can say with confidence that you don't know anything about paranoid schizophrenics. And no one said that Sheila killed the family out of revenge, it's you who keeps talking about revenge!! She was ill, she lost it whatever her reason at the time, they made sense to her but it was NOTHING to do with revenge!!! probably more to do with fear!!

I not once used the word "revenge". Of course Sheila had mentioned suicide to Helen Grimster-I'm not trying to cover up facts-and it's well known that people who talk of suicide are statistically more prone to it. I just wonder how much Jeremy knew of Sheila's conversations and her medical history. Quite a lot would be my guess.

[lookout]

Caroline I'm looking at the statistics for suicide among schizophrenic women who kill their children with a gun.

Sheila would have been described as a psychotic filicide/suicide,, such is the expulsion of energy in killing,that they forget to commit suicide and end up with a half-hearted attempt when shooting themselves.

[Steve_uk]

Sheila would have been described as a psychotic filicide/suicide,, such is the expulsion of energy in killing,that they forget to commit suicide and end up with a half-hearted attempt when shooting themselves.

Sorry lookout it just doesn't happen that way. Paranoid schizophrenics don't plan to kill five people in advance,the twins murdered conveniently in their beds so that Jeremy doesn't have to face them running around the Farm. It's so obviously Jeremy's handiwork even putting Julie's statement to one side for the minute.

[lookout]

73% killed their children by shooting.

[HMEssex]

But according to the Defence Sheila was still wandering around inside the farmhouse when the Police arrived. Paranoid schizophrenics do not act to our rules,they don't fall into the category of "I've been wronged by my family and I'm going to teach them a lesson" suicide. They follow their own logic. Sheila might well have been proud of what she had accomplished and what better way to show it than to inform the Police Officers on arrival of what she had done.

That's probably what did happen, well done Steve...at last....

[Steve_uk]

Having lived with one for most of my life whilst growing up, I can say with confidence that you don't know anything about paranoid schizophrenics. And no one said that Sheila killed the family out of revenge, it's you who keeps talking about revenge!! She was ill, she lost it whatever her reason at the time, they made sense to her but it was NOTHING to do with revenge!!! probably more to do with fear!!

Caroline I have never had personal involvement with a paranoid schizophrenic but that does not exclude me from the discussion however much you would like it to be so. From what I can make out Sheila's schizophrenia was not typified by remarks such as "I wish I were dead","I am going to kill myself","I wish I had never been born";moreover I recall that Dr. Hugh Ferguson did not regard Sheila as a suicide risk because "she had too much to live for".http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/192621.php

[Caroline R]

Caroline I'm looking at the statistics for suicide among schizophrenic women who kill their children with a gun.

Steve, the problem with statistics is that they are cold facts. They tell you nothing of circumstances. How many of the women who killed their children had access to a gun? The stats don't tell you that do they? Sheila did have access.

[lookout]

Sorry lookout it just doesn't happen that way. Paranoid schizophrenics don't plan to kill five people in advance,the twins murdered conveniently in their beds so that Jeremy doesn't have to face them running around the Farm. It's so obviously Jeremy's handiwork even putting Julie's statement to one side for the minute.

That's right,Steve,,they don't plan,,,they do it on impulse,spur of the moment and can annihilate a whole family. It would have spilled over out of control after their evening meal when Jeremy had gone.

[Caroline R]

Sorry lookout it just doesn't happen that way. Paranoid schizophrenics don't plan to kill five people in advance,the twins murdered conveniently in their beds so that Jeremy doesn't have to face them running around the Farm. It's so obviously Jeremy's handiwork even putting Julie's statement to one side for the minute.

Who said she planned anything in advance?

[maggie]

Caroline I have never had personal involvement with a paranoid schizophrenic but that does not exclude me from the discussion however much you would like it to be so. From what I can make out Sheila's schizophrenia was not typified by remarks such as "I wish I were dead","I am going to kill myself","I wish I had never been born";moreover I recall that Dr. Hugh Ferguson did not regard Sheila as a suicide risk because "she had too much to live for".http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/192621.php

Steve there are witness statements where she was reported to have spoken of suicide.....we have been here before.....about 6 mobths ago.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, the problem with statistics is that they are cold facts. They tell you nothing of circumstances. How many of the women who killed their children had access to a gun? The stats don't tell you that do they? Sheila did have access.

I doubt Nevill or June would have left that rifle where Jeremy claims he put it along with the ammunition spilled out on the blue and white chequered kitchen worktop,but leaving that aside there must be hundreds of thousands of mentally ill women in America with access to firearms,yet I'm having difficulty in finding concrete examples who share but a tenuous link to the Sheila Caffell case.