Jeremy Bamber: the Prelude, the Tragedy and the Aftermath

[maggie]

She knew her own abilities to be sure and must have realized she was of above average intelligence but I think Julie was trying to "fit in" and "go with the flow" when she moved to Colchester. It was this mentality which led to tragedy as she went along with Jeremy,who admittedly must have seemed a good catch for her. However I can't subscribe to the view that she was out for all she could get and turned a blind eye to Jeremy's criminal intent;I think she was just naive. Her hard work career-wise and for charity in Canada is testament to the real character of Julie.

Not particularly steve because some psychopaths are pillars of the community all their lives.  They enjoy careers in a position of power and control also charity work gives them status, who knows steve........

[maggie]

It was easier for Jeremy to rationalize their destruction because they were that much more remote from him. As Liz Rimington said the real motive for the murders was money,but Jeremy fell back on the excuse that he was doing everyone a favour by getting rid of them all.

How do you know they were remote from them or is this about prejudice that an adopted child cannot love the parents who adopted them as their own.  Some do and some obviously don't but you really do not know whether Jeremy loved his mum and dad etc..

[Steve_uk]

How do you know they were remote from them or is this about prejudice that an adopted child cannot love the parents who adopted them as their own.  Some do and some obviously don't but you really do not know whether Jeremy loved his mum and dad etc..

The overwhelming body of evidence is that Jeremy disliked his parents to put it mildly and tolerated them because he would have too much to lose if he made a complete break. The fact that Julie broached this possibility suggests to my mind that she would have been happy to stay with Jeremy minus the money.

Of course that was before the murders.

[maggie]

The overwhelming body of evidence is that Jeremy disliked his parents to put it mildly and tolerated them because he would have too much to lose if he made a complete break. The fact that Julie broached this possibility suggests to my mind that she would have been happy to stay with Jeremy minus the money.

Of course that was before the murders.

There is no overwhelming evidence steve. We know Jeremy had trouble with June when she was struggling with her own mental illness and a manic about religion, that doesn't prove anything would imagine that is normal enough behaviour by a late teen early 20s son.  Apart from that most of the rest is hearsay and no doubt the usual teenage angst etc.  It was Sheila who had huge difficulties and resentment of her mother which seems to have become tragically tangled up with her own mental illness.

[Steve_uk]

There is no overwhelming evidence steve. We know Jeremy had trouble with June when she was struggling with her own mental illness and a manic about religion, that doesn't prove anything would imagine that is normal enough behaviour by a late teen early 20s son.  Apart from that most of the rest is hearsay and no doubt the usual teenage angst etc.  It was Sheila who had huge difficulties and resentment of her mother which seems to have become tragically tangled up with her own mental illness.

There are so many independent witnesses who are not linked to one another and yet when one reads their testimonies it's possible to build up a picture of Jeremy's relations with his parents:

Jeremy to Goldsmiths student James Richards: "I f***ing hate my parents"
Liz Rimington:"It's important to have money whilst you're young"(the subliminal message here is "money is wasted upon my elderly parents as they are too old to enjoy it")
Nevill Bamber:"The shooting season is coming up..accidents do happen.."
June's hospitalization and her demeanour those last few months,constantly in tears as she gave up on any instruction of her children and tried to look on the bright side,just going through the motions of existence as Jeremy and Sheila ignored her..
Robert Boutflour:"Oh no Uncle Bobby,I could easily kill my parents.."
Jeremy to Doris Foakes: "I'm not sharing any of my money with Sheila.." Had this comment found its way surreptitiously to June?

Of course Nevill and June liked to keep up appearances which were important in the village. But neither were fools and they were not fooled..

[maggie]

You didn't let me down steve....every quote is there just ascexpected but none of them are more than hearsay. There is no evidence either Ralph or June distrusted Jeremy ....none. 

[Steve_uk]

You didn't let me down steve....every quote is there just ascexpected but none of them are more than hearsay. There is no evidence either Ralph or June distrusted Jeremy ....none. 

Nevill told farm secretary Barbara Wilson to find a new hiding place for the safe key. In my opinion this was because Jeremy had been sniffing around reading confidential documents such as the wills. If you can't work out how Nevill's mind was functioning with the comment about the shooting season coming up,combined with his comment "I must never turn my back on that young man" then you are being disingenuous.

[Caroline R]

Nevill told farm secretary Barbara Wilson to find a new hiding place for the safe key. In my opinion this was because Jeremy had been sniffing around reading confidential documents such as the wills. If you can't work out how Nevill's mind was functioning with the comment about the shooting season coming up,combined with his comment "I must never turn my back on that young man" then you are being disingenuous.

Lets leave the reverse psychology aside, not pretend to be mind readers and just stick to facts!!

[Jane]

Nevill told farm secretary Barbara Wilson to find a new hiding place for the safe key. In my opinion this was because Jeremy had been sniffing around reading confidential documents such as the wills. If you can't work out how Nevill's mind was functioning with the comment about the shooting season coming up,combined with his comment "I must never turn my back on that young man" then you are being disingenuous.

Steve my dear, you are the very LAST person to suggest us incapable of working out how anothers' mind works.

Reading through last nights threads objectively it struck me that you were in conversation with numerous people who ALL had the same thoughts regarding JM and her motives which to us probably show in more subtle ways than you can translate. Lugg put it beautifully. Women understand women. I would be intrigued to know why you defend this woman at every turn and are willing to manipulate evidence and translate others' thoughts to do so. I would be interested to know what you find in her self oriented personality to like. Do you admire her brand of selfishness under the headings of her being determined and driven. Perhaps you are attracted to those very things about her that Jeremy was attracted to. From every picture I've seen of her she certainly comes across as a powerful woman and many men are turned on by such. I believe she used him, however, there are none as used as those who allow themselves to be.

Finally, the picture you paint of Nevill running down his son who anybody within hearing distance doesn't fit with the man who liked to keep family business private.

[Lugg]

There are so many independent witnesses who are not linked to one another and yet when one reads their testimonies it's possible to build up a picture of Jeremy's relations with his parents:

Jeremy to Goldsmiths student James Richards: "I f***ing hate my parents"
Liz Rimington:"It's important to have money whilst you're young"(the subliminal message here is "money is wasted upon my elderly parents as they are too old to enjoy it")
Nevill Bamber:"The shooting season is coming up..accidents do happen.."
June's hospitalization and her demeanour those last few months,constantly in tears as she gave up on any instruction of her children and tried to look on the bright side,just going through the motions of existence as Jeremy and Sheila ignored her..
Robert Boutflour:"Oh no Uncle Bobby,I could easily kill my parents.."
Jeremy to Doris Foakes: "I'm not sharing any of my money with Sheila.." Had this comment found its way surreptitiously to June?

Of course Nevill and June liked to keep up appearances which were important in the village. But neither were fools and they were not fooled..

So far you've only shown us witnesses who ARE linked to one another. The rest is just your own interpretation that you choose to put upon their words.

[Jane]

There are so many independent witnesses who are not linked to one another and yet when one reads their testimonies it's possible to build up a picture of Jeremy's relations with his parents:

Jeremy to Goldsmiths student James Richards: "I f***ing hate my parents"
Liz Rimington:"It's important to have money whilst you're young"(the subliminal message here is "money is wasted upon my elderly parents as they are too old to enjoy it")
Nevill Bamber:"The shooting season is coming up..accidents do happen.."
June's hospitalization and her demeanour those last few months,constantly in tears as she gave up on any instruction of her children and tried to look on the bright side,just going through the motions of existence as Jeremy and Sheila ignored her..
Robert Boutflour:"Oh no Uncle Bobby,I could easily kill my parents.."
Jeremy to Doris Foakes: "I'm not sharing any of my money with Sheila.." Had this comment found its way surreptitiously to June?

Of course Nevill and June liked to keep up appearances which were important in the village. But neither were fools and they were not fooled..

I would like to know why you put motivations of evil onto Jeremy's words, albeit they have been taken out of context, yet you dismiss, as being said in the heat of the moment, JM's words, "If I can't have you, nobody else will" when there is living proof that she carried out that threat.

[lookout]

Steve,,I can only come to the conclusion that you have something " personal " against Jeremy as a person,,because of your vitriolic posts.

[Alias]

Steve,,I can only come to the conclusion that you have something " personal " against Jeremy as a person,,because of your vitriolic posts.

Well, if Steve thinks Jeremy is the killer, I don´t think his posts are particularly vitriolic, natural not to like him if you are convinced of that.
I don´t understand the JM glorification though, and Steve, you speculate a lot...

[maggie]

Steve,,I can only come to the conclusion that you have something " personal " against Jeremy as a person,,because of your vitriolic posts.

OR lookout he's laughing his head off at us all taking him seriously!!!!! ?

[killingeve]

I don't get that Steve 'a Northerner', what are you talking about, she was a well educated woman, one would expect her communication skills to be good.  We are not all morons north of Watford whatever some say.

No Maggie the 'real' morons are to be found in Wurzel country.  A place full of cider guzzling numpties, morris dancers and oddities like Pam Ayers.  All set against a backdrop of vote 'Lib Dem' boards and trains of caravans.  A hell hole if ever there was one.  And to think as a child my parents took me there on holiday.  B******s.  Is it any wonder my head is so f****d?.