"I didn't mean to be horrible to Jeremy.."

[lookout]

That's how I read it too,ngb,,as a sort of an apology,with aforethought.

Ooops,I meant Roch.

[Caroline R]

Patti, I read that Jeremy is supposed to have said that Sheila did something nasty/horrible/terrible to him. It wasn't expanded on, which makes me think it may be true, and I assumed it to have happened in the distant, rather than the recent past. "I didn't mean to be horrible to Jeremy" could have been in her mind if she was contemplating suicide.

Exactly what I thought! 

[Caroline R]

The remark does appear to have been mentioned to Julie in the past by Jeremy as it was in her statement,and again there's a mystery as to its exact meaning,as Jeremy does not elucidate as to the nature of the discord. Knowing Sheila it was probably something minor or petty to do with his appearance,as he was put down expressed in that typical feminine way designed specifically to insult a man.

The diary entry tells me she picked up a pen not a gun,and makes unlikely to my mind the scenario of her taking her father hostage and forcing him to make a telephone call summoning Jeremy to the farm. Far more likely is Sheila taking a bath,manicuring her nails and otherwise going about her toilet,her unbesmirched appearance ruling out the effort required to discharge 25 bullets with pinpoint accuracy whilst producing the sweat and adrenalin necessary to slaughter the victims.

But that's just it Steve, you don't/didn't KNOW Sheila!! You don't know when she wrote the comment, what she meant by it, what she did to warrant writing it or her state of mind at the time! And would someone 'doped up like a zombie' even think about manicuring their nails? Your theories tend to contradict each other!

[Jane]

The remark does appear to have been mentioned to Julie in the past by Jeremy as it was in her statement,and again there's a mystery as to its exact meaning,as Jeremy does not elucidate as to the nature of the discord. Knowing Sheila it was probably something minor or petty to do with his appearance,as he was put down expressed in that typical feminine way designed specifically to insult a man.

The diary entry tells me she picked up a pen not a gun,and makes unlikely to my mind the scenario of her taking her father hostage and forcing him to make a telephone call summoning Jeremy to the farm. Far more likely is Sheila taking a bath,manicuring her nails and otherwise going about her toilet,her unbesmirched appearance ruling out the effort required to discharge 25 bullets with pinpoint accuracy whilst producing the sweat and adrenalin necessary to slaughter the victims.

"Expressed in that typical feminine way designed specifically to insult a man". You seem to have a sadly low opinion of women, Steve.

[HMEssex]

"Expressed in that typical feminine way designed specifically to insult a man". You seem to have a sadly low opinion of women, Steve.

Perhaps poor Steve has been at the receiving end of such a put down about his appearance in his past.

Jeremy said it was regarding something in their childhood, and as we all know siblings can be really horrible to one another at times, but get past that and end up as friends, as is what happened with Sheila and Jeremy.

[Jane]

Perhaps poor Steve has been at the receiving end of such a put down about his appearance in his past.

Jeremy said it was regarding something in their childhood, and as we all know siblings can be really horrible to one another at times, but get past that and end up as friends, as is what happened with Sheila and Jeremy.

I'm not certain that their friendship was particularly deep because I don't believe they truly knew each other. This, IMO, resulted from their being sent to boarding schools at an early age. Steve describes Jeremy's relationship with his parents as being that of polite strangers. For once I am in agreement with him but I will take it a step further. I think it describes the dynamic between the whole family.

[HMEssex]

I'm not certain that their friendship was particularly deep because I don't believe they truly knew each other. This, IMO, resulted from their being sent to boarding schools at an early age. Steve describes Jeremy's relationship with his parents as being that of polite strangers. For once I am in agreement with him but I will take it a step further. I think it describes the dynamic between the whole family.

I think you're right about their childhood, with them being sent to different schools and only seeing each other in holidays (which could lead to rivalry too).  But I was thinking more about them becoming friends when older, where Jeremy would go and see Sheila in London - they obviously had a bond and still had a shared history (Bambers as parents).  They attended parties and socialised together, but then Colin was on the scene too.  Maybe they were more peers than siblings? 

[mertol22]

Steve is like Sam in quantum leap, drifting from one place to another with occasional quotes from books along the way, having said that its one of several opinions as to Sheila saying or writing such things.

[Steve_uk]

Hi steve  I hate the crime equally as much as you and at times have difficulty in talking about it in depth. I think your sentiments are very commendable in hoping your input to the forum may help further murders of this nature from happening.  I think what you are saying is if people had been more aware of what type of person Jeremy Bamber was  i.e. devious, cruel vain greedy womaniser,  they could have maybe forseen these murders and prevented them. If only Julie had warned Ralph what type of son he had brought up and what he was planning the murders could have been prevented. But then again if she had done this she may have been his next intended victim and this is why she kept quiet. Please Google the case of Theresa Riggi who last year stabbed her 3 lovely children 8 times each and lay them in a line on the floor then tried unsuccessfully to take her own life.  She was sentenced to 16 years in prison.  Would you say that was normal behaviour.  She loved her children obsessively to the point she felt she had to kill them to protect them.  Mothers unfortunately do this.   People don't always murder for an inheritance.

Jeremy Bamber will never confess to a crime he did not commit would you especially when it involved two young children. Jeremy is have you have said doing good work on books for the blind.  steve why does he have to have a motive.

I don't see the case of Theresa Riggi as comparable because she was trying to deny her husband access to the children and had vengeance in mind,whereas Sheila was not vindictive,welcomed the support Colin offered and was more interested in being part of the in-crowd.

For balance and helping those new to the forum I post a video here which does include two very sick women with mental illness who killed their children. I can't understand why more of this was not made at trial,given that Sheila undoubtedly had been ill in the past,and it was her name which Nevill mentioned in the alleged telephone call to Jeremy,which I reject as a pretext to get Police to the farm and give Jeremy an alibi for that morning.http://youtu.be/q0Qgh3H3cdw

[Steve_uk]

If I may be so bold Steve? But you seem to presume to put an awful lot of words into a simple one liner written in Sheila's journal? How on earth can you get that amount of information from so few words.

Because it fits in with how I imagine Sheila and how I'm trying to portray her. Sheila and Jeremy for all their enforced siblingship did not know each other well and were not close(Jeremy couldn't even recall her married name upon the Police arriving at the farm that morning). I can see Jeremy making a remark about Sheila neglecting the twins that night and Sheila making some riposte about his appearance.

I stick with this forum and Mike's remarks because I feel that Jeremy's case does deserve the scrutiny which maybe it has not received heretofore,it's just that every time I read remarks like Sheila's I am confirmed in my belief that she was not involved in these crimes.

[Steve_uk]

Which makes me wonder how Steve can run in the complete opposite direction with it.

But Sheila is expressing remorse for a little incident which happened earlier in the day. She is showing that she does have a regard for Jeremy,otherwise she would not have bothered to write those words. It also tells me that she is not in a state of psychosis,and at the time of writing had no knowledge of the death of her sons,which is one of the few points of solace one can take from these dreadful crimes.

[Steve_uk]

Hi lookout hope you are well.  I often think and I know it is hypothetical but what would have happened with this murder case had Jeremy married Julie.  That is what a clever man would have done if he had confessed to his girlfriend he was responsible for the deaths of his entire family. A plain stupid one would have dumped her.

But Jeremy committed these crimes to gain his freedom. Part of this involved no longer being tied to the farm business and the other part was being able to play the field as a monied man with a flat in a fashionable area of London would have been well able to do.

[Steve_uk]

Hi Susan,yes I'm well thankyou,hope you are too.
Of course he'd have married her and she'd have jumped at the suggestion,if there'd been murder on his mind. That's what psychopaths do to hide their guilt,acting as though nothing's happened because their lack of emotion allows that. Jeremy was intelligent,,but not clever,as in crafty and cunning.

Jeremy told Julie his was a foolproof plan. Maybe Jeremy was bouncing ideas off Julie,and Julie certainly doesn't come out of this unblemished. However it would be hard-hearted not to give Julie another chance to make a success of her life,which whatever you may think of her actions before and after the murders she has done.

[Patti]

I don't see the case of Theresa Riggi as comparable because she was trying to deny her husband access to the children and had vengeance in mind,whereas Sheila was not vindictive,welcomed the support Colin offered and was more interested in being part of the in-crowd.

For balance and helping those new to the forum I post a video here which does include two very sick women with mental illness who killed their children. I can't understand why more of this was not made at trial,given that Sheila undoubtedly had been ill in the past,and it was her name which Nevill mentioned in the alleged telephone call to Jeremy,which I reject as a pretext to get Police to the farm and give Jeremy an alibi for that morning.http://youtu.be/q0Qgh3H3cdw

Hi Steve

That video is frightening, but I watched it all the same, reminded me of Friday Night Horrors! I used to watch from behind the cushion with my grandmother. 

If you want me to be honest, the 2nd part struggled to give definite factual evidence about Jeremy...it sort of clutched onto hearsay rather than truth....

[Patti]

But Jeremy committed these crimes to gain his freedom. Part of this involved no longer being tied to the farm business and the other part was being able to play the field as a monied man with a flat in a fashionable area of London would have been well able to do.

Steve, Jeremy never planned to live in London, he was not interested in city life. He was going to sell up and buy a small holding in Devon....