Ralph's pyjama,s

[Lugg]

Campion, hello. I've been sitting here, staring at your post for the last 15 minutes. It's so plausible that I've been trying to make the rest of the story fit around it. I discovered, to my horror, that I was probably doing that which I've accused Steve of. That is, creating the story I wish to present. I think I'd better stop now.

I think that, that is a natural thing to do. I do it myself and change things around and look at them from a different perspective. I doing this I find I sometimes offend different people. When all I am doing is turning things over to see if my ideas fit.

[buddy]

IMO there can be no other reason for the lack of holes in Ralph's top than he was not wearing it at the time. please try and remain on topic about this, as I think it is important.

[Jane]

IMO there can be no other reason for the lack of holes in Ralph's top than he was not wearing it at the time. please try and remain on topic about this, as I think it is important.

Buddy, I can't go any further that saying what I think DIDN'T happen. I don't think he was dragged across the floor, put into pyjamas and lifted into a chair. I'm thinking of the time and effort involved and to what purpose?

[susan]

Hi Buddy  sorry I have not seen the photo's of Ralph but if he was shot wearing PJ's they should be a hole where the bullet entered.  I have read his PJ top was torn in several places is this where the bullet entered.  I think he was near death and was pushed into the chair then beaten.  Sorry can't help with holes in PJ's as I have never seen the photo's.

[Patti]

IMO there can be no other reason for the lack of holes in Ralph's top than he was not wearing it at the time. please try and remain on topic about this, as I think it is important.

Hi Buddy

There were holes in Nevill's PJ's one in the arm and one in the shoulder.  Bridget posted the document that confirmed this. However, it did not mention any holes or burn marks in the back of the PJ's....So could it be that these wounds were inflicted prior to him having his PJ top on? 

[ngb1066]

Hi Buddy

There were holes in Nevill's PJ's one in the arm and one in the shoulder.  Bridget posted the document that confirmed this. However, it did not mention any holes or burn marks in the back of the PJ's....So could it be that these wounds were inflicted prior to him having his PJ top on? 

I think the burns were inflicted on part of Nevill's upper back/lower neck, exposed as a result of him being slumped forwards. 

 

[susan]

Hi ngb  that is exactly what I said but do they listen to me NO

[Patti]

I think the burns were inflicted on part of Nevill's upper back/lower neck, exposed as a result of him being slumped forwards.

Hi Neil

Just below the nape, do you mean? Was it mid-line of the back? 

[susan]

Hello Patti my love it is now very obvious you do not read my posts and I am deeply hurt.  I stated that the PJ's could be easily be pulled off his neck/back as they would only button so far up and would not be difficult to inflict burn marks on the bare skin.  I shall be watching you from now on to see if you are paying attention.  What a hoot as you know I jest don't you

[ngb1066]

Hi Neil

Just below the nape, do you mean? Was it mid-line of the back? 

I believe the burns were in a line running down from the nape.  I am not sure about the alignment.

[Patti]

Hello Patti my love it is now very obvious you do not read my posts and I am deeply hurt.  I stated that the PJ's could be easily be pulled off his neck/back as they would only button so far up and would not be difficult to inflict burn marks on the bare skin.  I shall be watching you from now on to see if you are paying attention.  What a hoot as you know I jest don't you

Sorry Susan, I have just got home from work and trying to do a million things at once, like make a cheese and onion quiche....not yer shop bought rubbish....

Sorry I missed your post, slapped wrists and all that caper!....I will be very careful int future. 

The niggley thing about pulling someones PJ down from the back does not sit with me, but it is possible...but why go to such trouble?

Why pull it down at all, if the intention was to burn him...why the back, why not the arms? 

Susan we need to find out what those burn marks are and, what made them...We already know that the muzzle does not heat up enough....so we have to look else where.  Unless NGB is certain that the muzzle is the way to go forward with this....If not, then we must shelved that idea....and find something that will convince the CCRC....

[Patti]

I believe the burns were in a line running down from the nape.  I am not sure about the alignment.

If only we had a fuller picture....Do you think Mike might have one? 

[susan]

Hi Patti  you are forgiven my dear.  It is quite easy to pull the back of PJ's off the neck and top bit of the back if you think about prodding somebody the obvious place is to stand  behind them as you are stood up straight and not having to lean over and as Ralph was slumped forward the neck and nape would be tight and taut and easier to prod Imagine doing it that is what I do.  ngb thinks the butt of the rifle could be heated enough to cause the burn marks.  Again I am repeating myself Sheila smoked big cigars they would cause these marks the first mark would be when the cigar was at its hottest and would cause a different mark to the one below which would be different again and the same with the one below.  I hope I am making sense.  I will now repeat again about 30 years ago I had a lit cigarette held against the back of my hand for sometime and it caused a hugh round burn mark which was more prominently red around the edges.  The burn went right through the skin into the flesh.  It was quite bad for awhile but healed and I still have the round scar on my hand which will be with me for life.  I had this done when I was going to become a White Witch but changed my mind now I just read tea leaves

[ngb1066]

Sorry Susan, I have just got home from work and trying to do a million things at once, like make a cheese and onion quiche....not yer shop bought rubbish....

Sorry I missed your post, slapped wrists and all that caper!....I will be very careful int future. 

The niggley thing about pulling someones PJ down from the back does not sit with me, but it is possible...but why go to such trouble?

Why pull it down at all, if the intention was to burn him...why the back, why not the arms? 

Susan we need to find out what those burn marks are and, what made them...We already know that the muzzle does not heat up enough....so we have to look else where.  Unless NGB is certain that the muzzle is the way to go forward with this....If not, then we must shelved that idea....and find something that will convince the CCRC....

I would still stick with the rifle muzzle theory.  It is true that firing the rifle will not cause it to be heated sufficiently, but if it was placed on the Aga hob it would have reached the temperature required (about 200 degrees C) within 5 minutes, and if placed in the Aga fire box it would reached that temperature very quickly. 

 

[vidvic]

I would still stick with the rifle muzzle theory.  It is true that firing the rifle will not cause it to be heated sufficiently, but if it was placed on the Aga hob it would have reached the temperature required (about 200 degrees C) within 5 minutes, and if placed in the Aga fire box it would reached that temperature very quickly. 

 

I think I may have said this to you before, but, if this were proved to be the case, that the silencer wasn't on the rifle when the burn marks were made, does that not point more to Bamber than it does to Sheila, the 'crazed killer'? As it surely shows a level of thought not expected in someone having some kind of 'episode'. Also, if the silencer wasn't on the rifle when Nevill was marked, it doesn't mean it wasn't used at all, and therfore, how does this take the defence anyway forward?